[Night_Thastus]

Just a couple of weeks ago on mid-range models. The problem is not implementation or refinement - the core idea is fundamentally flawed.

[nativeit]

The problem is we’re now arguing with religious zealots. I am not being sarcastic.

[gibbitz]

I feel this way about Typescript too. There are a lot of people in engineering these days who don't think critically or exercise full observation when using popular technologies. I don't feel like it was like this 15 years ago, but it probably was...

[oinfoalgo]

I actually don't know if you are referring to anti-LLM/"ai slop" software engineers or irrationally bullish LLM "the singularity is near" enthusiast.

Religious fervor in one's own opinion on the state of the world seems to be the zeitgeist.

[exe34]

that's correct. those who believe only carbon can achieve intelligence.

[windward]

This stops being an interesting philosophical problem when you recognise the vast complexity of animal brains that LLMs fail to replicate or substitute.

[shkkmo]

If you stereotype the people who disagree with you, you'll have a very hard time understanding their actual arguments.

[exe34]

I stopped finding those arguments entertaining after a while. It always ends up "there's something that will always be missing, I just know it, but I won't tell you what. I'm just willing to go round and round in circles."

[shkkmo]

People who are certain that computers can't replicate human level intelligence aren't being intellectually rigourous. The same applies to people who are certain computers can replicate human level intelligence.

We can make arguments for informed guesses but there are simply still too many unknowns to be certain either way. People who claim to be certain are just being presumptuous.

[exe34]

> The same applies to people who are certain computers can replicate human level intelligence.

that's the thing, I'm not certain that "computers" can replicate human level intelligence. for one that statement would have to include a rigorous definition of what a computer is and what is excluded.

no, I just don't buy the idea that human level intelligence is only achievable in human born meatbags. at this point the only evidence has been "look, birds flap their wings and man doesn't have wings, therefore man will never fly".

[gibbitz]

Don't forget the part where they don't listen to or engage with counter arguments. That's a popular one.

[melagonster]

Yes, Carbon do not give them human rights.

[exe34]

why not the top few? mid-range is such a cop out if you're going to cast doubt.

[Night_Thastus]

Realistically, most people are not going to be on top end models. They're expensive and will get far, far FAR more expensive once these companies feel they're sufficiently entrenched enough to crank up pricing.

It's basically the silicon valley playbook to offer a service for dirt cheap (completely unprofitable) and then once they secure the market they make skyrocket the price.

A mid range model is what most people will be able to use.

[exe34]

If you want to know what's possible, you look at the frontier models. If you want it cheap, you wait a year and it'll get distilled into the cheaper ones.