[memco]

Not sure how prevalent this is now, but a few years back I was seeing a lot of "cash price" advertised for stuff that was lower by whatever the merchant didn't have to pay in fees so sometimes cash may not be subsidizing the credit industry.

[vidarh]

Handling cash costs money too. Sometimes more than handling cards. But a proportion of customers who like cash are very strongly convinced they are "subsidising" card payments, and might be attracted by pricing like that, so maybe it still ends up being a net gain.

[ta12653421]

From a percentage perspectice, handling huge amounts of cash should be far more expensive; I know one of the operators over here in my country: If you are a supermarket chain and have three locations in one large street, they charge you for every stop a minimum fee + additional handling costs.

[vidarh]

When I suggested pricing like that might work, my point was not that it'd be cheaper. I 100% agree it'd be more expensive. But if it attracts a sufficient amount of additional business from people who want to pay cash it could still be a net gain (assuming those customers are still profitable).

[ameliaquining]

In a lot of cases there are regulatory or contractual barriers to doing that.

[lotsofpulp]

In the US, not since 2011 since the Dodd Frank act required payment card networks to allow merchants to offer cash and debit card discounts.

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/new-rules-el...

[ameliaquining]

There's no longer a blanket ban, but there are still obstacles:

* Mastercard and Visa don't allow debit card surcharges, even if the transaction is run as "credit".

* American Express only allows surcharges if they also apply to all other forms of card payment. This includes debit cards, which interacts problematically with the previous rule; if you want to do a card surcharge while accepting all three card brands and remaining compliant with all their rules, you have to apply it only to Mastercard and Visa and not American Express, even though American Express is the most expensive.

* Several states still don't allow card surcharges, and others don't allow merchants to profit from surcharging (which makes it hard to advertise a uniform surcharge) or have regulations about how prices have to be listed if a surcharge is going to apply.

Rules like these don't make it impossible to do surcharges while remaining compliant, but they make it significantly harder than it'd otherwise be. I think this is the primary reason why most merchants still don't do them. (Well, that and that their competitors don't, but that could explain either equilibrium.)

[lotsofpulp]

A cash and debit card discount is the same as a credit card surcharge, I fail to see how this qualifies as “significantly harder”.

Target, one of the largest retailers, offers a 5% discount for debit. Comcast, Tmobile, Verizon, ATT, Lumen, utilities, governments, and insurance companies also routinely charge extra for credit cards (or discounts for debit/cash).

Daycares charge more for credit card, as do doctors’ offices.

At least half the gas stations I see have long had higher credit cards prices.

Not to mention contractors for physical labor.

The change since 15 years ago is stark. If I wasn’t getting a minimum of 3.5% cash back on my purchases, I would use credit cards a lot less.

[ameliaquining]

Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live).

I did know that recurring utility-type payments, and payments of more than a couple thousand dollars, tend not to accept credit cards or to charge a lot extra for them, presumably because it's not as costly for them to make their users eat the inconvenience of setting up ACH payments. Most merchants can't get away with that. I've also seen it for gasoline but chalked this up to gasoline being an unusually fungible and high-demand commodity.

Do you know how they're handling the American Express problem? I don't think I've noticed a big contraction in how many merchants accept it.

[lotsofpulp]

> Huh, I didn't know that about Target (perhaps because I've lived for years in a state that doesn't allow this, so I can't get the discount where I live)

I linked to a website that shows the federal government specifically allowing it. You can definitely get a 5% discount in your states’ Targets for paying with a debit card:

https://www.target.com/circlecard

> Do you know how they're handling the American Express problem? I don't think I've noticed a big contraction in how many merchants accept it.

It’s not a problem. Refer back to the federal legislation that prohibits payment card networks from dictating cash and debit card discounts.

[conductr]

The card issuers used to prohibit it, not been the case in a while though. They used to prohibit having a minimum transaction amount or charging transaction fees to your customer too. It never stopped small merchants though