[zaptheimpaler]

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there.

It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allowed to wall in their data with no API access. Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all. They are the definition of regulatory capture.

[matheusmoreira]

I tried to do something similar not too long ago.

At the time I was using ledger for personal accounting. Ledger is amazing and incredibly flexible. Writing the journals with detailed financial data is way too time consuming though.

I tried to write software to pull this data from the banks. Got in touch with the managers at my bank and everything, they even referred me to their devs. I just needed read only access to my own bank account.

I eventually discovered I needed permission from the goddamn central bank to do this.

I also tried to integrate with my government's electronic consumer receipt systems. The idea was I'd scan the receipt with my phone or laptop camera and it'd download the data and automatically generate a detailed ledger journal entry with individual postings and metadata for every product I purchased. This was going to save me so much time it's not even funny.

I discovered I had to create a corporation to even ask the government for API access to my own data.

[11mariom]

^ this.

"Open Banking" is just… not open at all. Misleading name.

Had similar idea - just to pull my own data, tag transactions, etc etc, and have a nice stats. Nope, it is so "open" that it's just impossible to pass for single-user idea. "Open Banking" just gives me opportunity to show in my Bank A part of data from Bank B.

[disgruntledphd2]

If you're in the EU it might be worth checking out if TrueLayer support your bank.

[elric]

> allowed to wall in their data with no API access

There's PSD2 in the EU (or Eurozone? Not sure actually). Basically forces banks to open common APIs to encourage interopability and competition. However, it's not aimed at users but rather at companies in fintech building applications.

Some banks (Bunq comes to mind) offer APIs to their customers for direct use, but most don't. The reason is obviously security. People still fall for phishing, people still give fake bank staff their access codes on the phone. Giving normal users a way to have API access to their bank account would be disastrous for many of those users.

Now, it would be nice if things like PSD2 were a little more accessible and transparent. Currently you need permission from an institution like The National Bank to gain access. It's expensive and bureaucratic.

[dahcryn]

It's a great idea, but it's been killed off by the small print that was lobbied into the requirements

Basically, banks force apps or users to require you fully revalidate user consent every 90 days. And it's quite an annoying process. That means any app or integration you want to build, requires 10 minutes of your time every 90 days or they stop working. It's killed many Fintech's.

It all works on paper, but is drafted into law by politicians who have no clue about technical challenges and user experience. So in the end, it works exactly as designed by the banks: it doesn't

[elric]

Requiring up to date authentication in order to access a bank account makes sense though. Do you get annoyed at having to enter your PIN when using an ATM?

[zaptheimpaler]

The method I use now (SimpleFIN) requires me to reauth with a text based OTP every single day, for each of my bank accounts/cards. It also voids some consumer protections. In practice I only sync once in a few days to avoid that pain. A somewhat supported way with auth once every 90 days sounds like a dream.

[lucketone]

180 days (changed recently)

[eitau_1]

I'd be more than happy with read-only access. Still potentially bad for 'normal users' but not disastrous.

[kkfx]

It's for SEPA area BUT it's mandatory open only for PSPs/financial institutions cutting out end customers... Also most banks have a terribly limited support. Personally I use OpenBank APUs (PSD2/DSP2) for some banks (ironically via a Canadian operator, GoCardless) and well... generic accounts are supported, stocks are not, bank cards are not etc, most exports have very poor quality.

Long story short I can auto-import in Firefly III from EU banks only via a Canadian company and the quality of the process NOT due to GoCardless but due to local banks is terrible...

That's why stablecoins are booming...

[nicbou]

I was really disappointed by that. I still can't easily retrieve a list of my transactions.

[moi2388]

I am very happy with that, because it means the PSD2 providers have their security tested before they are accepted.

[nicbou]

Yes, PSD2 is overall an excellent thing. I used to be able to scrape my data with just a username and a password. This is a massive improvement.

[ksec]

I am thinking if I am in the minorities or such practice isn't common across the world where I have many credit cards and bank accounts. I am willing to pay $5 dollars a month just for such services. A single places where it shows All my current accounts balance, auto pay all credit cards bills on payment date. Showing all my current credit card spendings this month, remaining ( next invoice ) and where they belongs to, mostly dinning.

I would have thought Apple Pay and Mobile Payment would pave the way for better Credit Card services, but right now most of them are glibbest on the statement. I dont remember which restaurant it is nor does it correctly show.

I basically want a central place for all my finance. Including discount on credit cards, savings, interest rate loan etc. And I am willing to pay a small fees for it.

[politician]

> Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all.

It's not really the banks' fault. They're all stuck leasing expensive information systems from entrenched third-party technology shops. They don't have software development dollars and they are extremely risk averse, to a paranoid degree. Thank the regulatory environment for that (state and federal).

Companies like Moov.io are trying to crack open this space and provide the levels of integration we see in other industries.

But it's really hard and slow.

[marcus_holmes]

This is not the problem. If it was the problem then banks in (most of) the rest of the world would also be stuck 50 years in the past. They're not.

[astrange]

Other countries' banks don't have the US regulatory environment.

[marcus_holmes]

Yes, they do. The UK and Australia (examples I know) have equally stringent regulatory environments as the USA.

[neoecos]

That's why Im really bullish on Column, a tech company with banking license

[cedws]

Isn’t that basically every neobank?

[mousetree]

They don’t have banking licenses, at least not in the US

[ameliaquining]

This is only true of small banks, not large ones.

[toenail]

I feel you, that’s why I’m my own bank.

[zaptheimpaler]

Bitcoin does seem like a great store of value, but as far as I know transacting with it is still quite expensive, and obviously not accepted in most places. Watching the USD be devalued in real time while BTC or Gold maintain value does drive home its utility as a store of value for sure.

But I can't buy groceries or pay rent with it, so i don't see how it works for the usecase I was talking about above. There's lots of ways to convert back and forth but you pay fees on each conversion so it's not economical to use for payments.

[tossandthrow]

What does it mean that you are your won bank?

Do you treat your matrass like a bank? Maybe with the pidgin carrier protocol to do money transfers?

[toenail]

I use a decentralized global ledger and can make instantaneous peer to peer payments to anyone on the planet. I'm not just my own bank, I participate in a system that replaces central banks and provides a money that isn't constantly devalued. It's called bitcoin.

[zaik]

I don't receive my salary in Bitcoin and I can't pay my groceries, rent or taxes with it. People own Bitcoin because they expect prices to rise further, not for its utility.

[toenail]

Lol, I was paid in bitcoin and have paid for all kinds of stuff in bitcoin. That you don't is meaningless to me. People own Bitcoin because they know that fiat money is guaranteed to lose value. If you don't see the utility of having a money that can't be printed out of thin air, I congratulate you for being financially privileged.

[tossandthrow]

There are some huge misunderstanding here:

You might have been paid in bit coins, but the value of these bitcoins has to be declared at the day of transfer so you can pay taxes in your local fiat currency.

Nobody are disputing that it is a really bad idea to hold cash above an emergency fund. Everyone is highly discouraging you from doing it. Buy ETFs, stocks, houses, cars, cyrpto whatever you need - just don't hold large amounts of cash.

All in all, it makes a very little difference what you are paid in - just that you have extra hoops to pay your taxes now that you are paid in bitcoins.

[WJW]

So the miners safeguard your money (hopefully), they are also responsible for actually transmitting your money (hopefully), and you don't take any deposits or make loans to customers.

You don't hold your own money, you don't manage transferring your own money, you basically don't do any of the things a bank does. How does that make you your own bank exactly?

[toenail]

Miners are not "responsible" for transmitting my money, that's on me, and I incentivize them. I'm also a miner btw. As I'm my own bank, and nobody elses, I obviously don't take deposits or make loans. I couldn't make "loans" as banks do anyway, as bank loans generate new money, and that's the main reason why I bitcoin. What's coming next, I don't wash cartel money, so I'm not a bank?

[CamouflagedKiwi]

Being able to send a commodity to other people is not what people or regulators mean when they talk about something being a bank.

[tossandthrow]

Bitcoin can not yet be deemed currency by commonly understood principles for a currency: You can not pay your taxes, it is not a store of value (it is volatile), and it can not generally be used to transact (Good luck getting trader joe accepting bit coins).

So that would not really constitute a bank that stores currency.

(I have nothing on crypto currencies, btw., and if it gives a feeling of agency to use them I applaud it)

[toenail]

> commonly understood principles for a currency

If you start from there, you'll never understand bitcoin. I own bitcoin precisely because it is not what economists, bankers and politicians want me to own.

[tossandthrow]

I don't really know what the goal of this comment is?

This thread was not about understanding bitcoins - but banking.

> I own bitcoin precisely because it is not what economists, bankers and politicians want me to own.

It doesn't really make sense to own something just because someone else are saying you should not own it - but whatever floats your boat and as long as your own the consequences of your own actions.

[Kenji]

Bitcoin is a better store of value than USD. Change my mind.

[ranger207]

Bitcoin's high volatility means that it's impossible to predict exactly how much value one Bitcoin will have tomorrow, next month, next year, or next decade. USD has comparatively low volatility. It's possible, but very unlikely, for USD to go to zero tomorrow, and while the uncertainty around exactly how likely USD is to collapse increases as you look further towards the future, most people would consider it less likely for USD to collapse than Bitcoin. Since markets are made up of "most people", most people are more willing to accept USD to exchange value than they are Bitcoin. Therefore, USD is a better store of value than Bitcoin

[Jommi]

just move everything to a public chain and it becomes easy