[gruturo]

That Das Keyboard is the only piece in the entire website I didn't quite dislike. But I'm biased as I'm typing this on one (although a Tenkeyless one - it's ridiculous to have a numpad, it's not the 80s).

The rest goes from "meh" to "gross" (that fibreboard is getting _nasty_ even with a bit of sweat over a few months, not to mention its raw edge is going to result in blood loss sooner or later)

[frostburg]

The rest isn't particularly nice either but I would describe it more as "suboptimal decisions" than lack of effort.

They're not bad keyboards but you can get superior custom tenkeyless or even fullsize ones (if you must) without even having to deal with group buys now.

[nottorp]

> superior custom tenkeyless

How are tenkeyless keyboards "superior"? Missing keys are a feature now?

[gruturo]

I think the parent poster didn't imply that TKL keyboads are intrinsically superior (on the other hand, unless your task is in the 1% benefiting from a keypad.... they kind of are IMHO, at least they're more portable and don't waste space on a desk), but rather described 2 possible attributes of better keyboards, not necessarily related.

On laptops, usually a keypad is an automatic indicator of a terrible product meant for the less knowledgeable audience. The keypad causes the rest of the keyboard to be squished to the left, with the hands now shifted off center and closer than normal. Awful experience every time.

[nottorp]

> don't waste space on a desk

That has always baffled me. If you're using a computer professionally you have at least two monitors... and even one is as wide as a full sized keyboard or wider.

Not to mention that TKLs tend to also squeeze the arrow keys and the other navigation keys.

[mindslight]

The rest of the desk is for things and papers being worked on. Or more realistically, piles of "do this real soon".

But to me the real point of a TKL (87%) is to avoid having a dead space between your right typing hand and the rodent. If I were the type of person who wanted a numpad, I'd get a separate one and either put it to the right of the rodent, or to the left of the main keyboard.

But what I really want is more macro/F-keys. I use them to switch between desktops/windows, and 12 is just not enough. But I don't know if I've even seen a modern keyboard with even one extra row, never mind just stacking several more rows up top.

I'm finally going to try doing something about this. I've got a few of those cheap 4x6 keypads coming, as well as a 75% ortholinear (which is really just a fancy name for a 5x15 keypad, at least the one I'm getting with all 1u keys). I'm thinking the 4x6 keypads up top, and then maybe the 75% turned 90 degrees to the lefthand side of the main keyboard, for one continuous macropad surface? We'll see.

(FWIW I don't rely on the "home row" to touch type, so YMMV)

[nottorp]

> is to not put a dead space between your right typing hand and the rodent

I suppose it depends on what the work is and your style. I tend to drive my IDEs from the keyboard. That of course means I want my PgUp PgDown Home End full size and not cramped.

The mouse is for circle strafing and then my right hand stays on the rodent.

[frostburg]

You're probably thinking of a 75%, which is a questionable layout, yes. A typical TKL keyboard is spaced like a fullsize, just without the numpad cluster.

Smaller layouts (even 40%) have their advantages in minimizing how much you have to move your hands and fingers but there are tradeoffs (and a learning curve due to the necessary layers in the smallest ones).

[brunohaid]

Was concerned about splinters too, but if you compress and treat/seal it a bit, it works quite well, although they do get a bit gross after 2-3 years to the point where you should flip/replace them.