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by tialaramex 313 days ago
> After all, Rust doesn't actually give us 100% safety, because we interact with C code etc..

And so, after all this long thread you're back to just saying you weren't actually talking about safe Rust in the conversation about safe Rust. It was all a big waste of my time.
1 comments
pron 313 days ago
No, I was talking about safe Rust, which also interacts with potentially unsafe C code, you know. What do you think schedules the threads running your safe code? How do you think your safe code reads from a socket?
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ViewTrick1002 313 days ago
Which as long as no new functionality is added keeps getting safer.

https://security.googleblog.com/2024/09/eliminating-memory-s...

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pron 313 days ago
I thought there's no such thing as "safer". There's only whatever guarantees Rust happens to make that can prevent almost 1% of the bugs a language like ATS can prevent, which is safe, and anything that doesn't make those exact same guarantees, which is unsafe and completely worthless.

Anyway, you help prove my point, which is that even those who claim to believe in a binary distinction between what Rust happens to guarantee and anything else don't actually believe that, and understand that it's all about numbers and risks. There are many measures to reduce bugs - some through guarantees in the language, others without guarantees - that each have some level of effectiveness and some cost, and the goal is to balance those costs and reduce bugs as much as possible.

Anyone who follows the research in software correctness over the past five decades should know that in the seventies we thought we had the answers, but since the nineties we've known that there is no one right answer to correctness, and that there's no way to tell in advance which methods will be more or less effective.

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ViewTrick1002 311 days ago
And quite evidently the design and community for both C and C++ leads to design with massive amounts of very high severity bugs.

Of course ignoring how Rust also helps against logic bugs by managing null values and having an expressive type system.

You seem to be the one completely focused on the binary question since that is the only thing that allows C , C++ etc. to still be part of the conversation.

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