[pclmulqdq]

It's been "engineering challenges" for 30 years. At some point, "engineering challenges" stops being a good excuse, and that point was about 20 years ago.

At some point, someone may discover some new physics that shows that all of these "engineering challenges" were actually a physics problem, but quantum physics hasn't really advanced in the last 30 years so it's understandable that the physicists are confused about what's wrong.

[fxwin]

You might be right that we'll never have quantum computers capable of cracking conventional cryptographic methods, but I'd rather err on the side of caution in this regard considering how easy it is to switch, and how disastrous it could be otherwise.

[simiones]

As others pointed out, it's not so easy to switch, as the PQC versions require much more data to be sent to establish a connection, and consequently way more CPU time. So the CPS you can achieve with this type of cryptography will be MUCH worse than classical algorithms.

[ifwinterco]

Let's be honest though, key exchange is not exactly the limiting factor for web performance in 2025

[msgodel]

It can be limiting for other things though. Encrypted DNS was already marginal for some TLD operators, adding the overhead of PQC may actually make it completely impractical.

[fxwin]

it doesn't get much easier than that, and the downsides are much much much less of an inconvenience than having your data breached depending on what it is.

[b112]

Especially of the break through isn't public, and used behind the scenes.

[westurner]

"A First Successful Factorization of RSA-2048 Integer by D-Wave Quantum Computer" (2025-06) https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10817698

[pclmulqdq]

Yeah, except when your "2048-bit" numbers are guaranteed to have factors that differ by exactly two bits, you can factor them with any computer you want.

The D-wave also isn't capable of Shor's algorithm or any other quantum-accelerated version of this problem.

[westurner]

Have you or anyone else proven that there is no annealing implementation of Shor's?

Why are you claiming superiority in ignorance?

[maratc]

I was at a lecture by a professor who's working in the field, his main argument was that quantum computers are physically impossible to scale.

He presented us with a picture of him and a number of other very important scientists in this field, none of them sharing his attitude. We then joked that there is a quantum entanglement of Nobel prize winners in the picture.

[westurner]

I don't think that that professor was correct.

The universe is constantly doing large, scaled quantum computations.

The number of error-corrected qubits per QC will probably increase at an exponential rate.

Whether there is a problem decomposition strategy for RSA could change.

Oh, entanglement and the prize! Adherence to Bell's is abstruse and obtuse. Like attaching to a student of Minkowkski's who served as an honorable patent examiner in Europe who moved to America. We might agree that there are many loopholes by which information sharing through entanglement is possible; that Bell's theorem is not a real limit to communications or QC because there are many "loopholes to"

[mikestorrent]

D-Wave themselves do not emphasize this use case and have said many times that they don't expect annealing quantum computers to be used for this kind of decryption attack. Annealers are used for optimization problems where you're trying to find the lowest energy solution to a constraint problem, not Shor's Algorithm.

In that sense, they're more useful for normal folks today, and don't pose as many potential problems.

[westurner]

I suspect that we simply haven't yet found an annealing solution for factoring integers yet.

It may be that no solution exists; even given better error correction with that many qubits.

A standard LLM today won't yet answer with "no solution exists"

[adgjlsfhk1]

By that argument, I can factor a 100000000 bit number on my computer in a second.

[asah]

Some good ideas take a long time.

Nuclear energy got commercialized in 1957. The core technology was discovered nearly 50 years earlier.

Electricity was first discovered in ~1750 but commercialized in the late 1800s.

Faraday's experiments on electromagnetism were in 1830-1855 but commercialization took decades.

(The list goes on ...)

[pclmulqdq]

Your idea of "core technology" is about the first time a theory was discovered that had a technology as a consequence. That's the only way nuclear energy's "core technology" is discovered in 1907. By the same token, quantum computing's "core technology" was discovered in 1926 during Erwin Schrodinger's work formalizing wave equations for quantum systems. During those periods when technology takes a long time, both the underlying physics and the engineering makes steady advances. 100 years later, we still have very little idea how or why quantum superposition works.

[wasabi991011]

> 100 years later, we still have very little idea how or why quantum superposition works.

We understand superposition perfectly well. Maybe you are confusing science with philosophy.

Anyway, I'm starting to lose track of your point. There's definitely been steady advances in quantum technology, both in the underlying physics and in engineering. I'm not sure why you think that stopped.

[pclmulqdq]

What do you mean when you say "we understand superposition perfectly well"? To be very simplistic about this, are you proposing to know the physics of why entanglement can cause information to seemingly travel instantaneously over a distance when this seems to contradict what we know about the speed of light? Does this trigger no questions in your mind about some physical mechanism we don't understand here?

I understand that we have math that says that superposition does work, but we don't actually understand the physics of it. One of the foibles of modern physics is thinking that knowing the math is enough. Newton knew the math of his 100% internally consistent version of physics, but we know that there were observations that were not explained by his math that we now understand the physical mechanisms for.

I understand that "things that are beyond the math and physics I know" may be philosophy in your mind, but that is not a correct definition of philosophy.

[wasabi991011]

>are you proposing to know the physics of why entanglement can cause information to seemingly travel instantaneously over a distance when this seems to contradict what we know about the speed of light?

I guess, in the sense that we know _it doesn't_. First of all, I'm pretty sure you are confusing superposition with entanglement. Second of all, entanglement doesn't transmit any information, it is purely a type of correlation. This is usually shown in most introductory quantum information or quantum computing courses. You can also find explanations on the physics stackexchange.

Superposition is just another word for the linearity of quantum systems.

Anyway, it's a hard question to figure out the limits between math, physics, and philosophy. A lot of physicists believe physics is about making useful mathematical models of reality, and trying to find better ones. Newton might disagree, but he's also been dead hundreds of years.

Anyway, please don't fall for the Dunning-Kruger effect. You clearly are only slightly familiar with quantum physics and have some serious misconceptions, but you sound very sure of yourself.

[ziofill]

> quantum physics hasn't really advanced in the last 30 years so it's understandable that the physicists are confused about what's wrong.

I have my doubts about who’s the confused one. Quantum physics has advanced tremendously in the past 30 years. Do you realize we now have a scheme to break rsa 2048 with 1M noisy qubits? (See Gidney 2025)

[pclmulqdq]

Somehow, we have all these schemes to factor huge numbers, and yet the current record for actual implementation of Shor's algorithm and similar algorithms came factoring the number 15 in 2012. There was a recent paper about "factoring" 31, but that paper involved taking a number of simplifying steps assuming exactly that the number in use was a Mersenne number. People in this field keep showing "algorithm improvements" or "new devices" that are good enough to write a paper and yet somehow there's always an implementation problem or a translation problem when someone comes asking about using it.

If this algorithm exists and works, and there are chips with 1000 noisy qubits, why has nobody used this algorithm to factor a 16-bit number? Why haven't they used it to factor the number 63? Factoring 63 on a quantum computer using a generic algorithm would be a huge advancement in capability, but there's always some reason why your fancy algorithm doesn't work with another guy's fancy hardware.

At the same time, we continue to have no actual understanding of the actual underlying physics of quantum superposition, which is the principle on which this whole thing relies. We know that it happens and we have lots of equations that show that it happens and we have lots of algorithms that rely on it working, but we have continued to be blissfully unaware of why it happens (other than that the math of our theory says so). In the year 3000, physicists will be looking back at these magical parts of quantum theory with the same ridicule we use looking back at the magical parts of Newton's gravity.

[ziofill]

It’s clear you don’t know what you’re talking about.

[pclmulqdq]

If you are claiming to know what you're talking about, use one of these algorithms to factor the number 63 and you will get tenure.

The easiest way to prove that you do know what you're doing is to demonstrate it through making progress, which is something that this field refuses to do.

[wasabi991011]

And that's not even a quantum physics advance, that's a purely algorithmic advance!

There's also been massive advances in terms of quantum engineering.