[rtaylorgarlock]

Is it always/only 'laziness' (derogatory, i know) when caching isn't implemented by a site like wplace.live ? Why wouldn't they save openfreemap all the traffic when a caching server on their side presumably could serve tiles almost as fast or faster than openfreemap?

[toast0]

Why should they when openfreemap is behind a CDN and their home page says things like:

> Using our public instance is completely free: there are no limits on the number of map views or requests. There’s no registration, no user database, no API keys, and no cookies. We aim to cover the running costs of our public instance through donations.

> Is commercial usage allowed?

> Yes.

IMHO, reading this and then just using it, makes a lot of sense. Yeah, you could put a cache infront of their CDN, but why, when they said it's all good, no limits, for free?

I might wonder a bit, if I knew the bandwidth it was using, but I might be busy with other stuff if my site went unexpectedly viral.

[radu_floricica]

Politeness? Also speed.

But it depends on the project architecture. If the tiles are needed only client-side, then there's really little reason to cache things on _my_ server. That would imply I'm better at caching openstreetmap tiles than... openstreetmap. Plus you're just making the system needlessly more complicated.

And there's little reason for openstreet map to be upset, since it's not like _I_ am making 2 million requests - there are 2 million separate users of osm+. It's aligned to their incentive of having more people use osm and derived works. All is well.

[Aeolun]

I think, when you read that, you should be reassured that nobody is going to suddenly tell you to pay, and then still implement caching on your own side to preserve the free offering for everyone else.

Seriously, whose first thought on reading that is “oh great, I can exploit this”.

[naniwaduni]

You don't need to be thinking "I can't exploit this" when you can just stop thinking about it.

[VladVladikoff]

I actually have a direct answer for this: priorities. I run a fairly popular auction website and we have map tiles via stadia maps. We spend about $80/month on this service for our volume. We definitely could get this cost down to a lower tier by caching the tiles and serving them from our proxy. However we simply haven’t yet had the time to work on this, as there is always some other task which is higher priority.

[latchkey]

Like reading and commenting on HN articles! ;-)

[hyperknot]

We are talking about an insane amount of data here. It was 56 Gbit/s (or 56 x 1 Gbit servers 100% saturated!). This is not something a "caching server" could handle. We are talking on the order of CDN networks, like Cloudflare, to be able to handle this.

[Sesse__]

> We are talking about an insane amount of data here. It was 56 Gbit/s. This is not something a "caching server" could handle.

You are not talking about an insane amount of data if it's 56 Gbit/s. Of course a caching server could handle that.

Source: Has written servers that saturated 40gig (with TLS) on an old quadcore.

[hyperknot]

OK, technically there might exist such server, I guess Netflix and friends are using those. But we are talking about a community supported, free service here. Hetzner servers are my only options, because of their unmetered bandwidth.

[Sesse__]

It really depends on the size of the active set. If it fits into RAM of whatever server you are using, then it's not a problem at all, even with completely off-the-shelf hardware and software. Slap two 40gig NICs in it, install Varnish or whatever and you're good to go. (This is, of course, assuming that you have someone willing to pay for the bandwidth out to your users!)

If you need to go to disk to serve large parts of it, it's a different beast. But then again, Netflix was doing 800gig already three years ago (in large part from disk) and they are handicapping themselves by choosing an OS where they need to do significant amounts of the scaling work themselves.

[hyperknot]

I'm sure the server hardware is not a problem. The full dataset is 150 GB and the server has 64 GB RAM, most of which will be never requested. So I'm sure that the used tiles would actually get served from OS cache. If not, it's on a RAID 0 NVME SSD, connected locally.

What I've been referring to is the fact that even unlimited 1 Gbps connections can be quite expensive, now try to find a 2x40 gig connection for a reasonable money. That one user generated 200 TB in 24 hours! I have no idea about bandwidth pricing, but I bet it ain't cheap to serve that.

[Sesse__]

Well, “bandwidth is expensive” is a true claim, but it's also a very different claim from “a [normal] caching server couldn't handle 56 Gbit/sec”…?

[bigstrat2003]

I realize that what constitutes "insane" is a subjective judgement. But, uh... I most certainly would call 56 Gbps insane. Which is not to say that hardware which handles it doesn't exist. It might not even be especially insane hardware. But that is a pretty insane data rate in my book.

[wyager]

> or 56 x 1 Gbit servers 100% saturated

Presumably a caching server would be 10GbE, 40GbE, or 100GbE

56Gbit/sec of pre-generated data is definitely something that you can handle from 1 or 2 decent servers, assuming each request doesn't generate a huge number of random disk reads or something

[ndriscoll]

I'd be somewhat surprised if nginx couldn't saturate a 10Gbit link with an n150 serving static files, so I'd expect 6x $200 minipcs to handle it. I'd think the expensive part would be the hosting/connection.

[markerz]

It looks like a fun website, not a for-profit website. The expectations and focus of fun websites is more to just get it working than to handle the scale. It sounds like their user base exploded overnight, doubling every 14 hours or so. It also sounds like it’s other a solo dev or a small group based on the maintainers wording.