[amluto]

Given that one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic, I would expect that the (non-CO2) air pollution from an old diesel is far higher than that from building and operating new diesel vehicles.

[formerly_proven]

Even then, a EURO5 diesel still makes quite a stink. Of course, even an EU6+OPF gasoline car still puts out air akin to a dying dog's fart.

ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough (and we should aggressively get stinky vehicles like everything pre-EU5 and loud vehicles like motorcycles and scooters off the road first).

I'm not huge on regulation, but if anything MIV is underregulated. Even in the EU anything that was street-legal at some point in the past 70 years is grandfathered in, nevermind that illegal vehicle modifications - if caught - at most earn a slap on the wrist. That's enormously dumb and doesn't fly anywhere else.

[cosmic_cheese]

I can’t wait for tiny engines like on things like weed eaters and leaf blowers to go extinct. Noisy, smelly as hell, generally awful.

[cperciva]

A lot of cities have banned them now, at least for personal use. (Last time this was debated in my area, some businesses had justifications for why they couldn't just use electric tools, but none of those applied to regular homeowners.)

[SoftTalker]

A lawn service that is working 8-10 hours a day can't use battery tools unless they buy a lot of batteries and/or have a way to recharge them in the field (from a gasoline-powered generator, most likely). So their complaint has some validity.

[cperciva]

Yeah, that's one of the issues they raised. The other issue was that they often get called in for jobs where battery tools simply aren't powerful enough. (e.g. clearing a completely overgrown yard as opposed to regular lawn maintenance.)

[_heimdall]

I have Ego's bicycle handle brush cutter, think a weed whacker on steroids with a metal blade.

That think does some serious work. I've cleared acres of overgrown mess with it. 2 6aH batteries will outlast me (~2 hours) before I need a break and the fast charger tops one up in maybe 30 minutes.

Lawn mowers are really where batteries fall apart. They go through a charge extremely fast, especially if the grass is even moderately overgrown. Most mowers are meant to be finish mowers where you aren't taking off much grass at all, say 1/4" up to maybe 1". Electric mowers really demand that or you'll run out of juice very fast.

[cosmic_cheese]

It’s not practical for all crews at present due to costs, but as EVs become more entrenched, the problem will solve itself. You keep an extra set or two of batteries that the truck charges and you swap as needed, not that different from having to stop to refill on gas.

Energy density of batteries is improving too, so the amount of time between swaps will be increasing.

[prmoustache]

Sheep and goats don't need to be recharged. They feed while doing the lawn.

[_heimdall]

My cows do a pretty good job, but I've always heard that the way llamas eat works extremely well for grass management. Something about biting off the grass rather than pulling/tearing it.

[senorrib]

BS. Gasoline is just more convenient and cheaper for them. 40V batteries last long enough that you only need a handful of them to last a whole day.

[SoftTalker]

I have 40V electric lawn mower. It takes nearly the full charge on two batteries to cut my average suburban-sized lawn. Sometimes I can't even complete it on that depending how tall the grass is. Add in edge trimming and blowing away the clippings and then multiply that by a number of lawns or larger properties and I think you would need dozens of batteries.

BTW "more convenient and cheaper" are strong arguments when you're in a competitive business. Lawn services are usually just a guy with a truck hustling for customers. The more lawns you can cut the more money you make. Anything that causes downtime such as running out of charged batteries is going to be a large negative.

[_heimdall]

> ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough

We do have to either replace them with something else or stop owning personal vehicles.

The end goal may be better, but that transition will be long and it will break plenty of things along the way.

[iknowstuff]

It really doesn’t have to. I’d say look at Norway but you’ll dismiss it as a rich country without looking up the actual reason behind their transition’s success. I’d say look at China but you’d say yeah but that’s China.

We can make the same decision and move fast in the direction, we just choose not to

[_heimdall]

Norway has done a great job transitioning, that's for sure. They are a richer country and that helps fund the massive government spending going into the transition, but I wouldn't dismiss their success either.

It helps that so much of their energy production already comes from hydro, that avoids the challenge of replacing ICE vehicles with electric cars in front of coal power plants.

I haven't been to Norway but I have been to Sweden, I was impressed with their primarily electric public transportation. I'd have to learn more about how Norway handled the transition and how it would translate to the US; for example average commute distance, use of public transportation, etc. I'd also be curious how much their government has been spending per capita, they do heavily subsidize the transition with things like tax incentives.

[speedgoose]

Transition is almost done around Oslo, and we are doing fine.

[_heimdall]

Do people there only use cars around town or for short road trips?

I know the trains in Sweden were great when I was there a few years ago, I assume Norway would be similar.

[nairboon]

> Do people there only use cars around town or for short road trips?

Modern mid-size EVs have a range of more than 400-500km. To put this into perspective, the drive from Oslo to Bergen, the other end of the country (latitudinal) is about 460km and takes 7h. You could possibly make that without even recharging, if you manage to sit still, without a break, for 7 hours.

[speedgoose]

A classic usage is driving to the cabin.

Now, yes few people drive as far as possible without breaks.

[WarOnPrivacy]

> one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic

My son's 1963 Dart (daily driver) puts out far less smell than a lot of pickup trucks in this neighborhood.

And the Dart is certainly cleaner than modern choker-style pickup trucks.