[fransje26]

Let me wager a guess: Mercedes models W124?

> I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.

You guessed correctly. The 1980's W124 was one of those cars that would keep going and going. Mechanically great, with a galvanized chassis and bodywork that made it also pretty rust resistant.

The 1993 version of the W124, supposed to be an "improved" remodeled version of the original car, was a worst car in every aspect. It rusted, the plastics were cheaper, etc.

The follow-up, the W210, is the model that cost MB dearly. Through cost-cutting and greed, they lost a huge chunk of the taxi market. The car itself was also an absolute rust-bucket piece of cr*p, the interior was also worst, with the whole woes compounded by crappy electronics.

MB as a brand hasn't really recovered from that. The engineering excellency, attention to detail, and engineering pride that made those W123/W124 almost unkillable is lost, and won't be found again.

[TimByte]

Once you start swapping over-engineering for bean-counting, you don't just lose durability, you lose a whole loyal customer base

[guywithahat]

Unfortunately it's hard to run a car company when your fan base consists of people who only buy used cars. People who buy new cars just don't care what the reliability will look like at 200k miles

[fransje26]

Absolutely true.

[oriettaxx]

My friend has the W124/125 first model, 250D, with the super 5 cylinder diesel engine: OM 602.912 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM602_engine

It's not just a beauty, is working super fine: and never stops. They made the 200D, 250D, 300D with the same engine, just adding one piston.

My friends comes and go from the EU to Turkey (5.000 km) with no issues at all: on the way he stops at a Turkish dealer of auto parts www.brossautoparts.com where he is able to just get the little plastic parts they get ruined (one was a little plastic wheel on the mileage meters they gave him for free 3 months ago).

In the second hand marked you can find this car for 4.000€ which is a totally ridiculous price !

He told me about the right and left mirror, which are not symmetric: Mercedes made a long research on usability and efficacy on mirrors, and discovered the right mirror can and should be smaller and squared (and, of course, remote controlled), while the left mirror was surprisingly preferred controlled by hand, so there is just a stick of metal (a rudimentary joystick) the driver can hold and move.

The sad is that he told me the second and third series had issues (as somebody else wrote already above) with metals, with the plastic on the side, and unfortunately with the electrical wiring (replaced with a more Eco-friendly version which did not last more then 10 years).

Let's remember the designer: the Italian Bruno Sacco, who had to fight a bit to have the new design accepted: the change from w123 to w124 was a big risk, and they made a test with the Mercedes 190 (a smaller version of the w124): which was a great success of the 80s (the coolest car a youngster could have in Italy at that time).

Yes, it is sad that no factories would consider such a good quality product nowadays: I remember what the famous marketing professor Kotler once told Philips and Braun about their reliable electric razors: "So, you find a customer who buys your razor, and then you make it so reliable that he won’t need another one for the next 40 years? Are you crazy?"

[Teknomadix]

I can confirm as an owner of several W124 vehicles, most notably the 1987 North American market S124, this is the 300 TDT, a station wagon version of the W124 chassis with the OM603 turbo diesel. Currently my wagons clock has just over 370,000 mi. This is a unicorn car in North America. They only sold this car during one sales year in 1987, with this particular engine configuration. This engine can also be found in several other cars around the same era from Mercedes-Benz.

I also own a 1999 W210 with the OM606 turbo diesel. This is the electronically controlled and upgraded version of the OM603. I can confirm that the w w210 is plagued with the myriad of problems. But it is still a fairly nice chassis with modern features and once one becomes acustomized with its particular idiosyncrasies it isn't really that horrible. But it's definitely not the tank that the w124 and w123 series chassis were. The primary prize is the OM606 engine. Which is commonly extracted from the W210 chassis and used to repower any number of other vehicles. There are lots of ways to crank tons of horsepower out of these engines, but at the sacrifice of their longevity.

[fransje26]

> a station wagon version of the W124 chassis with the OM603 turbo diesel.

That's the car my father regretted not buying.. He bought the W124 250D when still in Europe, and imported it to the US, assuming it would be a better car, as being built for the German market.

Once he arrived in the US, he found out that the US version was, in fact, much better. With better suspension, double air-conditioning units (if memory serves), all options included, ventilated front discs, etc. And for a lower price.

In hindsight a bad choice, but that type of information was difficult to find in those days..

[Teknomadix]

As far as I'm aware—I first must admit with the caveat that I really only know about these early mechanical turbo diesel Mercedes-Benz. I don't pay attention to any of the petrol versions and most of the later versions I have no interest in at all—none of the North American vehicles, even the "Sonderklasse" had dual zone AC in 1987. This was a feature that came later.

[bluetomcat]

The W210s did indeed rust badly and the interiors weren't on par with previous generations, but in purely mechanical terms, they were still solid cars. The diesels (particularly E250 TD and E290 TD) could cover 700k+ kilometres without any interventions to the engine or the transmission. The W211 is an improvement to the W210 in almost every aspect, and they are still plentiful on the roads in Eastern Europe.

[dahauns]

>(particularly E250 TD and E290 TD)

Not a coincidence, though - these two still use those legendary OM602/OM605 diesels of its predecessor series.

[fransje26]

True, from experience, the E290 TD was mechanically solid. The electronics, less so unfortunately. Ours was plagued by intermittent errors and beeping, together with some parasitic battery drain we could not trace down despite our best efforts.

I didn't have the chance to own a W211, but from what I read and heard, it was indeed an improvement. Even in the looks department!

[jacquesm]

One of my sons drives a W210 that has now got well over 300K on it and is still running like new. You can see the plastics are drying out and there is some minor rust in places but it is still a very solid car and likely will continue to run for many years to come. It's the kombi version, 320.

[fransje26]

Mechanically, it's pretty solid, absolutely. But the rust.. The rust!! And that's an issue the original galvanized W124 didn't have.

[jacquesm]

We had a W203 station as well, that one definitely was terrible (this was around the time the paint formula change happened), but the e class wagon is much older and still in very good shape. The one part that seems to be plagued by rust is the rear hatch, everything looks good. He's still debating replacing it entirely (the hatch, not the car) or welding it up and respraying it. He's a petty good welder and he really loves that car so there is a good chance he'll end up doing just that but at the same time that is not as good a fix as getting a NOS rear hatch and putting it in marine primer before spraying it.

[SoftTalker]

The W210 was a very good car, the so-called "Camry" of Mercedes-Benz in terms of reliability, except it had one huge problem: rust.

The true "million mile" Mercedes are probably the W123 diesels. Built very solid, they will still rust if you live in areas where road salt is used, but most cars will eventually.

It's weird how some cars are much more prone to rust than others. I had a Toyota truck in the 1980s and it rusted so fast you'd almost swear you could see it happening. Mechanically it never had any problems.

[fransje26]

> "Camry" of Mercedes-Benz in terms of reliability, except it had one huge problem: rust.

Absolutely. The rust.. The rust..!!

> The true "million mile" Mercedes are probably the W123 diesels.

Yes, for sure. And the W124 diesels.

> It's weird how some cars are much more prone to rust than others

Different levels of anti-rust efforts. Where Mercedes-Benz truly angered their clients, was by coming up with a new model with a lot worse rust properties. (Well, they cut corners on other things as well, like the quality of the interior, but the rust would be the first thing you'd notice.)

MB had the know-how and the processes in place to make a car less susceptible to rust, and just decided to go with the cheaper option, clients and longevity be damned.

[formerly_proven]

Yet W210, 211 etc. still sold millions of vehicles and are still on the road in numbers.

[fransje26]

The W210 did sell, but they did loose an unconditional taxi-driver base in the process. And a lot of loyal customers were truly unhappy with the downgrade and jumped ship.

[fasteo]

I have a w245, 410.000 Km. Still going strong

[prmoustache]

I bought recently a w245: basically I wanted a reliable petrol car that would have a small exterior footprint while being spacious inside (I have 2 teenagers at home) and that I could buy for less than the price of my bicycle.

Only downside is fuel consumption in urban driving.

[fransje26]

Good news! Keep it going strong!