[dustingetz]

actually if you live near a city the edge network is 6ms RTT ping away, that’s 3ms each direction, so if e.g. a virtual scroll frontend is windowing over a server array retained in memory, you can get there and back over websocket, inclusive of the windowing, streaming records in and out of the DOM at the edges of the viewport, and paint the frame, all in less than 8ms 120hz frame budget, and the device is idle, with only the visible resultset in client memory. That’s 120hz network. Even if you don’t live near a city, you can probably still hit 60hz. It is not 2005 anymore. We have massively multiplayer video games, competitive multiplayer shooters and can render them in the cloud now. Linear is office software, it is not e-sports, we’re not running it on the subway or in Africa. And AI happens in the cloud, Linear’s website lead text is about agents.

[Joeri]

Those are theoretical numbers for a small elite. Real world numbers for most of the planet are orders of magnitude worse.

[dustingetz]

it is my actual numbers from my house in the Philadelphia suburbs right now, 80 miles away from the EWR data center outside NYC. Feel free to double them, you’re still inside the 60hz frame budget with better than e-sports latency

edit: I am 80 miles from EWR not 200

[dpflug]

Like they said, for a small elite. If you don't see yourself as such, adjust your view.

[dustingetz]

what is your ping to fly.io right now?

[electroly]

90ms for me. My fiber connection is excellent and there is no jitter--fly.io's nearest POP is just far away. You mentioned game streaming so I'll mention that GeForce Now's nearest data center is 30ms away (which is actually fine). Who is getting 6ms RTT to a data center from their house, even in the USA?

More relevantly... who wants to architect a web app to have tight latency requirements like this, when you could simply not do that? GeForce Now does it because there's no other way. As a web developer you have options.

[dustingetz]

who said anything about designing for tight latency requirements? My argument is that, for Linear’s market - programmers and tech workers either in an office or working remotely near a city - the latency requirements are not tight at all relative to the baseline capacity. We live on zoom! I have little patience for someone whose 400ms jitter is breaking up the zoom call, I had better ping than that on AOL in 1999, you want to have a tech career you need to have good internet, and AI has just cemented this. I have cross-atlantic zoom calls with my team in europe every day without perceptible lag or latency. We laugh, we joke, we crosstalk all with realtime body language. If SF utilities have decayed to the point where you can’t get fast internet living 20 miles from the backbone, then the jobs are going overseas. Eastern europe has lower ping to Philly than jitter guy has to the edge. And people in this thread are lecturing me about privilege!

[hansvm]

Mine's 167-481ms (high jitter). It's the best internet I can get right now, a few suburbs south of San Francisco. Comcast was okayish, lower mean latency, but it had enough other problems that T-Mobile home internet was a small improvement.

[dustingetz]

update, Friday evening now and my RTT to EWR is now 8.5ms (4.2 each way), up from 6 point something this morning.

From Philadelphia suburbs to my actual Fly app in:

EWR 8.5ms (NYC)

SJC 75ms (California)

CDG 86ms (France, cross atlantic)

GRU 126.2 (Brazil)

HKG 225.3 (Hong Kong)

[nchmy]

Now try from Idaho or Botswana