[thinkingQueen]

Are you really saying that patents are preventing people from writing the next great video codec? If it were that simple, it would’ve already happened. We’re not talking about a software project that you can just hack together, compile, and see if it works. We’re talking about rigorous performance and complexity evaluations, subjective testing, and massive coordination with hardware manufacturers—from chips to displays.

People don’t develop video codecs for fun like they do with software. And the reason is that it’s almost impossible to do without support from the industry.

[unlord]

> People don’t develop video codecs for fun like they do with software. And the reason is that it’s almost impossible to do without support from the industry.

As someone who lead an open source team (of majority volunteers) for nearly a decade at Mozilla, I can tell you that people do work on video codecs for fun, see https://github.com/xiph/daala

Working with fine people from Xiph.Org and the IETF (and later AOM) on royalty free formats Theora, Opus, Daala and AV1 was by far the most fun, interesting and fulfilling work I've had as professional engineer.

[tux3]

Daala had some really good ideas, I only understand the coding tools at the level of a curious codec enthusiast, far from an expert, but it was really fascinating to follow its progress

Actually, are Xiph people still involved in AVM? It seems like it's being developed a little bit differently than AV1. I might have lost track a bit.

[Taek]

People don't develop video codecs for fun because there are patent minefields.

You don't *have* to add all the rigour. If you develop a new technique for video compression, a new container for holding data, etc, you can just try it out and share it with the technical community.

Well, you could, if you weren't afraid of getting sued for infringing on patents.

[scott_w]

> Are you really saying that patents are preventing people from writing the next great video codec?

Yes, that’s exactly what people are saying.

People are also saying that companies aren’t writing video codecs.

In both cases, they can be sued for patent infringement if they do.

[eqvinox]

> Are you really saying that patents are preventing people from writing the next great video codec? If it were that simple, it would’ve already happened.

You wouldn't know if it had already happened, since such a codec would have little chance of success, possibly not even publication. Your proposition is really unprovable in either direction due to the circular feedback on itself.

[fires10]

I don't do video because I don't work with it, but I do image compression for fun and no profit. I do use some video techniques due to the type of images I am compressing. I don't release because of the minefield. I do it because it's fun. The simulation runs and other tasks often I kick to the cloud for the larger compute needs.

[bayindirh]

> People don’t develop video codecs for fun like they do with software. And the reason is that it’s almost impossible to do without support from the industry.

Hmm, let me check my notes:

    - Quite OK Image format: https://qoiformat.org/
    - Quite OK Audio format: https://qoaformat.org/
    - LAME (ain't a MP3 Encoder): https://lame.sourceforge.io/
    - Xiph family of codecs: https://xiph.org/

Some of these guys have standards bodies as supporters, but in all cases, bigger groups formed behind them, after they made considerable effort. QOI and QOA is written by a single guy just because he's bored.

For example, FLAC is a worst of all worlds codec for industry to back. A streamable, seekable, hardware-implementable, error-resistant, lossless codec with 8 channels, 32 bit samples, and up to 640KHz sample rate, with no DRM support. Yet we have it, and it rules consumer lossless audio while giggling and waving at everyone.

On the other hand, we have LAME. An encoder which also uses psycho-acoustic techniques to improve the resulting sound quality and almost everyone is using it, because the closed source encoders generally sound lamer than LAME in the same bit-rates. Remember, MP3 format doesn't have an reference encoder. If the decoder can read the file and it sounds the way you expect, then you have a valid encoder. There's no spec for that.

> Are you really saying that patents are preventing people from writing the next great video codec?

Yes, yes, and, yes. MPEG and similar groups openly threatened free and open codecs by opening "patent portfolio forming calls" to create portfolios to fight with these codecs, because they are terrified of being deprived of their monies.

If patents and license fees are not a problem for these guys, can you tell me why all professional camera gear which can take videos only come with "personal, non-profit and non-professional" licenses on board, and you have pay blanket extort ^H^H^H^H^H licensing fees to these bodies to take a video you can monetize?

For the license disclaimers in camera manuals, see [0].

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42736254

[Spooky23]

Patents, by design, give inventors claims to ideas, which gives them the money to drive progress at a pace that meets their business needs.

Look at data compression. Sperry/Univac controlled key patents and slowed down invention in the space for years. Was it in the interest of these companies or Unisys (their successor) to invest in compression development? Nope.

That’s by design. That moat of exclusivity makes it difficult to compensate people to come up with novel inventions in-scope or even adjacent to the patent. With codecs, the patents are very granular and make it difficult for anyone but the largest players with key financial interests to do much of anything.