[avar]

Before the "fat bike" phenomena the same demographic used to ride around in "snorfiets" scooters which were theoretically limited to 25 km/h, but pretty much everyone modified for speeds of up to 50 km/h.

But somehow the Dutch have this collective amnesia on the topic, and today nobody remembers how the "snorfiets" problem of 10-15 years ago has pretty much disappeared, to be replaced by a quieter and safer mode of transport (even ilegally modified E-Bikes usually fall far short of modified "snorfiets" speeds).

    > [...]appear to be designed without pedaling in mind,
    > as exerting effort without proper ergonomics would
    > quickly become uncomfortable and painful.

This is a trend in E-Bike design in general, which makes sense. When they first came out manufacturers were just adding a motor and battery to existing designs.

The "fat bike" design is something that wouldn't work well unassisted, because it trades a severe increase in rolling resistance for better ride comfort.

But as a clean sheet design it makes more sense than the alternative. Why incorporate a complex suspension design (which, to be fair, some of them also have), when you can just have the tire absorb the bumps in the road? The marginal cost in electricity is trivial.

[gibagger]

> This is a trend in E-Bike design in general, which makes sense. When they first came out manufacturers were just adding a motor and battery to existing designs.

It's only a trend because people are not using them like bikes. The people who still want to pedal but need help because of illness, old age or too-long-distances for normal cycling often purchase actual bicycles which use normal bike parts.

> The "fat bike" design is something that wouldn't work well unassisted, because it trades a severe increase in rolling resistance for better ride comfort.

That is an understatement. People would quickly develop knee and/or lower back pain if they had to put any effort for any meaningful distance.

[avar]

    > It's only a trend because people are not using them like bikes.

Who's using E-Bikes "like bikes"?

The grandmother maintaining an easy 20 km/h against strong headwinds on her Sunday cruise? The petite mother bringing her kids to school at a comfortable 20 km/h in a 50 kg cargo bike, something she'd probably struggle to do at 5 km/h unassisted by an electric motor, if at all?

The fact is that E-Bikes have have opened up all sorts of use cases that wouldn't be practical without motor assistance.

I don't think "Fat bikes" are a particular outlier here. The basic design (or something similar) has been around since the 60's[1] as lowrider bikes. Fat Bikes provide basically the same riding geometry, only with an extra wide tire.

    > actual bicycles which use normal bike parts.

I can assure you they use "normal bike parts", e.g. Shimano shifters, brake discs, or similar. Despite the rhetoric around them, they're not actually in the performance envelope (even when speed unlocked) of requiring actual motorcycle parts.

Yes, the frame and seat are custom/unusual for a bicycle, but the same is true (at least for the frame) for a lot of modern bicycle designs, e.g. VanMoof and Cowboy bicycles (both of which you'd presumably consider "like bikes").

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowrider_bicycle

[sebazzz]

> Before the "fat bike" phenomena the same demographic used to ride around in "snorfiets" scooters which were theoretically limited to 25 km/h, but pretty much everyone modified for speeds of up to 50 km/h.

The difference is, of course, that a snorfiets/bromfiets requires a driving license (AB) and a fatbike does not, nor does it have any age restriction. A classic case of the legislator not keeping up.

[avar]

    > A classic case of the legislator not keeping up.

This isn't the legislator not keeping up. Not requiring insurance or licenses for E-Bikes where the assistance is limited to 25 km/h has been law across the EU since 2002. There was a deliberate decision to treat them like bicycles, not motorcycles.

[Aurornis]

> (even ilegally modified E-Bikes usually fall far short of modified "snorfiets" speeds).

Class 1 e-bikes are limited to 32 km/h here, but simple mods push them well above 50 km/h.

Many of these bikes are designed to be hacked, with unlocked power output significantly higher than the locked output. It’s a selling point and a key part of reviews.