[Saline9515]

This is not exactly true. First, many (most?) cyclists do not respect basic road safety rules, such as signaling when you turn, or respecting red lights. Let's not talk about safety behavior, such wearing a helmet or repressing the urge to listen music while riding a bike (I know, crazy, right?).

In France, each dataset shows consistently that accidents are very often caused by cyclists. 35% of the deadly accidents involving another road user were caused by cyclists, and if you consider serious accidents, in 2/3rd of the cases, no cars were involved.

Many deadly accidents are also caused by...a stroke (22% of the deaths), especially for older cyclists. This contradicts your point, as 1/3rd of the "solo deaths" are not caused by strokes. Indeed, 35% of the cyclists dying on the road do not involve another road user.

Hence, when you consider the total amount of cyclists killed on the road, less than half are in accidents where the car is responsible. In the case of suicide-by-redlight, is the car really to blame honestly? [0]

Hence, when accounting for minutes spend on the road, bikes are by far the most dangerous (excluding motorbikes, which at this point is a public program for organ donation).[1]

[0] https://www.cerema.fr/system/files/documents/2024/05/3._2024...

[1] https://www.quechoisir.org/actualite-velo-infographie-plus-d...

[Mawr]

> First, many (most?) cyclists do not respect basic road safety rules

Wonderful, and the least safety conscious cyclist in the world is still largely only a danger to himself.

> In France, each dataset shows consistently that accidents are very often caused by cyclists. 35% of the deadly accidents involving another road user were caused by cyclists

So including accidents in which the cyclists themselves died then?

> and if you consider serious accidents, in 2/3rd of the cases, no cars were involved.

So who was involved? Don't keep us hanging.

> Many deadly accidents are also caused by...a stroke (22% of the deaths), especially for older cyclists.

Yeah, cycling accident stats tend to be dominated by the >50 y/o age cohorts, painting a very misleading picture.

From your [1] source:

"Age seems to be a significant risk factor: 64% of cyclists killed on their bikes were over 55 years old."

> Hence, when accounting for minutes spend on the road, bikes are by far the most dangerous

Minutes spend on the road amongst cars? Sure. Not surprising to anyone.

From your [1] source:

"Even more surprising, deaths occur most of the time under normal conditions: 77% in broad daylight, 69% outside any intersection, 87% on dry roads. Figures corroborated by recent fatal accidents reported in the regional press: they resulted from a rear-end collision, when overtaking where the motorist had not respected the safety distance. "

[Saline9515]

I was answering to the parent who said that cycling accidents/deaths were caused by cars. As it happens, in the case of death, it's true, even though only for 2/3rds of the deaths, so not an overwhelming majority. And regarding "serious accidents" which are much more common and nonetheless very problematic, it's mostly false as most of the cycling accidents don't involve another car.

Besides, a cyclist passing at a red light can hit a pedestrian. I know those are the last of your concerns as a cyclist, my wife got hit at a crosswalk in Paris by one, who didn't respect the red light.

Or, by the way, a car can create an accident while trying to avoid the cyclist. Honestly, saying "dangerous cycling behavior is only dangerous for us" and "accidents and deaths are caused by cars" is quite comical and representative of the self-centered mindset of many cyclists.

Also, half of the cycling accidents with cars involve a professional vehicle/public transportation. But I'm sure that in your biking utopia, we'll have tomorrow cargo bikes delivering to Costco and and material to public works!

[gs17]

> Wonderful, and the least safety conscious cyclist in the world is still largely only a danger to himself.

Pedestrians are people too, and we're often in danger from cyclists who think they have right of way with no speed limit on sidewalks (very often on roads with bike lanes, for reasons that confuse me), or who think stop signs and lights shouldn't apply to them and hit us. I've been in situations where if I hadn't been very lucky my choice would have been between getting hit by a bike or a car. My parents or grandparents would not be so lucky, they would simply have to get hit.

And then there's the suicidal behavior, e.g. a cyclist who has decided that crossing a 5 lane road should not require waiting for a break in traffic, which could easily cause the cars to have an accident from trying to avoid hitting them.

[nedt]

> repressing the urge to listen music

Have you seen how many car drivers can't resist to listen to music? They even drive with closed windows. It's even worse like having headphones on, because they don't hear people shouting before they hit them plus a car is faster and heavier. Let's start there for general safety.

[Saline9515]

It's illegal to wear headphones while riding a bike in France.

And car drivers don't wear helmet either, yet I don't hear motorcyclists whine that it's unfair that we ask them to wear one for their own safety. Again, you can't refuse to follow basic safety rules, then complain that cyclists die on the road.

[nedt]

Actually car drivers really should wear helmets. They have a similar numbers in traumatic brain injury than cyclist without helmet.