[em-bee]

nitpick: ctrl-c never meant copy until windows started to dominate. it didn't even mean that in DOS. selecting more than one screens worth of text is possible in gui terminals and also in tmux.

but i agree with your general point: we can collectively do better than emulating 1970s hardware

absolutely!

[mananaysiempre]

Nit: didn’t Ctrl-X/C/V come from the original Macintosh? I thought Windows initially followed IBM’s CUA, where cut / copy / paste are instead Shift-Delete / Ctrl-Insert / Shift-Insert (and those still work too).

[layer8]

The original Macintosh had Command-X/C/V, and Windows 3.0 adopted that in addition to the existing CUA shortcuts, but changed Command to Control, as Alt was already in use for menus and form control shortcuts on Windows. So it’s true that Ctrl+C for Copy only became a thing with Windows.

[em-bee]

ah, that's a history detail i didn't know about. very well, it's apple's fault then :-)

[quesera]

Apple did it correctly!

Apple provided a new modifier key (Command, or ⌘) for our GUI shell. Or Open Apple/Closed Apple if you go back to the Apple II days. Control still works like it should.

Microsoft said "Hey that's useful, but we don't make hardware, and we don't have a Command key, so let's break things and reuse Control in our copycat GUI, and ignore all of the historical uses of control characters. What could go wrong?"

And then Linux (Gnome??) said "Hey we don't make hardware either, let's do what Microsoft did, because lots of people are familiar with it, and even though the historical uses of control characters are really important on Unix-like operating systems."

[em-bee]

you are right, apple didn't clobber ctrl-c and i should have realized that (facepalm). it IS microsofts fault. makes one wish microsoft started making keyboards earlier. maybe we would have gotten that command key everywhere.

on the linux end we didn't really have much choice then. we wanted to get people to switch from windows.

but technically, neither microsoft now linux clobbered ctrl-c in the terminal. if i remember ctrl-c does not work to select text in a DOS window, and it does not on a linux terminal either.

[em-bee]

TIL from this talk: https://youtu.be/ajfb5LSbQVM that all the control keys that we still use today have a corresponding encoding in ASCII: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_character#In_ASCII and that the control-keys were designed to emit those characters. i kind of implicitly knew that, but never made the direct connection, especially that it was ASCII that defined which control key would be assigned to which control character.

[rollcat]

> nitpick: ctrl-c never meant copy until windows started to dominate. it didn't even mean that in DOS.

VT102 wasn't designed with multiplexing in mind. The device was meant as a primary way to interact with a computer, not to perform the tasks of one - your physical keyboard also doesn't understand "copy".

> selecting more than one screens worth of text is possible in gui terminals and also in tmux.

It is but it isn't. You want to copy a multiline snippet of code you just wrote, you will have to manually strip away $PS1 & $PS2. You want to copy from vi into another window, you can't use the mouse - and you have to use a side channel.

I have 20+ unfixable issues outlined, and I'm in the process of writing a blog post... But at my current rate, it could become a book.

[em-bee]

It is but it isn't.

ok, yes, i was just talking about the simple case. you are right that the issue is more complicated, so i actually agree with you. i am talking about similar problems here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44757142

i am looking forward to your post. i added your blog to my rss reader