[handbanana_]

>While established developers debate whether AI will replace them, these kids are shipping. Developers who learned their craft in the age of pull requests and sprint planning sneer at their security failures, not realizing that 'best practices' are about to flip again. The barbarians aren't at the gate. They're deploying to production.

Shipping where? What production? What kids? I've yet to see this. I see the tools everywhere, but not anything built with them. You'd think it would be getting yelled about from the mountaintops, but I'm still waiting.

[bwfan123]

I think what has happened is the following:

A whole bunch of folks got into management thinking coding is beneath them, they are now wielding the power - let the code-monkeys do the typing. Then, turns out, coders are continuing to call the shots, and the management folks have coder-envy.

Now, with LLMs, coding is again not only within management's reach, but they think it is trivial, and it can be outsourced to the LLM code-monkeys, and management has regained power from the pesky coder-class.

So, you have management of all stripes "shipping" things, and dictating what coders should do - not realizing that they should stay in their lanes, and let coders decide for themselves what works best in their craft.

[0xcafefood]

This is a really interesting point. Managers are the _only_ people I've heard say things like "it's only a matter of time till all coding interviews are just 'write a prompt to...'" or "soon all coding will just be LLMs writing machine code directly."

It's struck me as odd that managers of software engineers would seek to negate the field of software development almost completely. But maybe you're onto something.

[worldsayshi]

What would qualify as proof? If somebody builds a good product and ships it it will just look like a good product. People will call it vibe coded slop when it fails spectacularly.

[layer8]

If there isn't a strong uptick in the general quality and usefulness of software within the next couple of years, then it's not clear what AI coding/design is actually buying us. Other than possibly some cost reduction, but it would be optimistic to assume that the savings go to the users and not to big tech. Regardless, the proof will be in the pudding.

[handbanana_]

I mean they would provide it--you would think this is something the AI coding businesses would be highlighting. "Here's an app tends of thousands use every day built with our AI tools!"

Heck they did it with languages for the longest time. Here's twitter, we built it on Rails, everyone use Rails! Facebook, built on PHP, everyone use PHP! Feels weird that if these AI tools are doing all this work that no one is showing it off.