[karaterobot]

I don't think it has to be ADHD. I don't have ADHD, and none of my friends have it that I know of. We all start things we don't finish, though. I was going to post some of the more ridiculous domain names I've purchased for personal projects, before I realized I'd be doxxing myself. Too bad, there are some good ones.

I think in many cases, we fail to finish projects because it's so much easier to start than it is to finish. The first 90% is easy, as the saying goes, but the second 90% is much harder.

And I use the word 'fail' advisedly. I think it's fine to not finish everything you start, but it's not good to never finish anything, ever. Not if your intention was to finish it anyway. I think finishing things is a crucial skill, and we need to practice it in order to get good at it, and we won't do that if we tell ourselves it's about as good to give up as it is to keep going.

ADHD is a real diagnosis, but I'm hesitant to pathologize not finishing projects, since that will end up being an excuse rather than an explanation for a lot of people.

[al_borland]

I didn’t think I had ADHD. Then I saw some video on autism that hit a little too close to home. I went and got tested, and just had them test for everything while I was at it, which included testing for ADHD. Turns out I do have ADHD. The more I learn about it, and autism, the more my entire life comes into focus.

I have mixed feelings about finding this out late in life (early 40s). I do think there was a lot of value in not having it as an excuse when I was younger, to force myself to figure things out and get to where I am today. On the other hand, I spent a good 20 years looking everywhere to try and figure out what is wrong with me. Lots of time and money down the drain… and the YouTube algorithm is what ultimately pointed me in the right direction.

I used to think that these psychiatrists were just trying to diagnose the human condition, as so many of the things I heard just seemed like normal life for me. But I guess I now know why that seemed normal for me, but maybe aren’t normal for everyone.

[b800h]

I felt the same when I discovered I was a Gemini. Come on - someone has created a category which describes a group of people in a fairly self-consistent way. Of course a large number of people will spot it and say: "Finally! The agency lies outside of me! My struggles are no longer my fault!"

But they never were in the first place, and being in a category doesn't change your responsibility to do the best with what you've got.

At least star signs don't medicalise you.

There are plenty of other ways of characterising this - Ayurvedic medicine or the Humours - in fact, those are so effective that they've been taken by business coaches and turned into "colour personality types". And they describe the same thing.

You have a deficiency of phlegm and black bile. Ask ChatGPT about how to treat it, and it'll essentially suggest a permanent dopamine fast.

[danudey]

"This thing that medical professionals say is real isn't real, and you can tell that because astrology isn't real either".

The reality is that, for a lot of people, their struggles aren't "their fault". People with visual disabilities aren't as good at playing darts, people who have issues with gross motor skills aren't as good at baseball. That's all accepted, but as soon as you get into invisible disabilities everyone leaps to say "I can't see it so it doesn't exist". It's a load of BS, and it's why so many people who do have these issues struggle - because they're being told, by people who don't care to understand what they're going through, that it's all their fault because they're just shitty people who need to try harder.

One of the things that people spouting nonsense like yours seem to miss is that these issues that people with ADHD have aren't just laziness; it's not just "I don't want to do work". People will find it impossible to do anything, even things they enjoy. It's not just slacking off from chores and playing video games instead, it's not being able to bring yourself to do chores but also not being able to bring yourself to play video games, or read a book, or go get groceries. It's a fundamental inability for you to direct your executive function, and until people like you stop spouting uneducated nonsense and start actually listening to people's experience it's going to continue to be an uphill struggle for people who have to go through what you're dismissing.

[al_borland]

Where did I say I was absolved of responsibility to do my best? In real life, I’d told fewer than 6 people about the diagnosis. I haven’t told my bosses and have no plans to. I’m not looking to game the system to lower the bar for myself. I was simply looking to understand myself better. I even said it was probably good I didn’t know when I was younger, as it forced me to not use it as an excuse.

I ran into situations countless times where I have things that had a big negative experience on my life and when talking to others, people just looked at me weird; they couldn’t relate. My sister was the only one who ever got it (her doctor has suggested she get tested, but she hasn’t done it yet). When I stumbled across people talking about their experiences with AuDHD, for the first time in 40 years I heard other people saying the same stuff I was trying to say, when others just looked at my like a weirdo. It’s not about looking for what to blame, it was about finding out I wasn’t the only one dealing with some of this stuff, which is how it felt for the vast majority of my life.

[danudey]

Also worth pointing out that ADHD is one of the most well understood diorders out there, and one of the most easily testable and medicated.

I can't count how many people I know or have heard from who have struggled with "motivation" all their lives, and then they took one ritalin one day and, instead of getting hyper and bouncing off the walls like their friends do, they were suddenly able to just sit down and focus on something in a way they'd never experienced before, without any of the struggles that they've suffered their whole lives, and been blamed for by the ignorant parent poster above.

And yeah, you don't have to medicate; it's definitely not for everyone, and I know someone personally who very clearly has ADHD (and a diagnosis) but cannot tolerate any of the available medications. Instead, she just has to find a way to work her life such that the downsides of ADHD don't affect her as much and she can lean on the benefits of ADHD to get through it. Still, just hearing "you're not a fuck-up, it's just how your brain works" can be extremely healing.

[LtdJorge]

What a bunch of nonsense

[rkachowski]

What kind of tests are these that can identify such disorders? In the culture and country I'm from, everyone I know with a similar diagnosis has had to go through a path of "decide what you have, battle the gatekeepers until they relent". This isn't just cynicism and shopping for desired results but the result of a medical system where professionals are guardians of insurance spend rather than fonts of advice.

The idea that there's a valid diagnostic test available sounds quite interesting.

[al_borland]

Pulling up my results, these are some of the named tests that were administered, with a short summary of what it's for (after asking Chat-GPT what they're all for.

- WAIS-IV (full scale IQ)

- WRAML-3 (memory)

- CPT-3 (ADHD - selective attention, impulsivity, and vigilance)

- BDEFS-SR (ADHD - executive functioning deficits in daily life activities, including self-management to time, self-organization, self-restraint, self-motivation, and emotional self-regulation)

- DKEFS (higher-level cognitive functions related to executive functioning)

- ADOS-2 (Module 4) (ASD - diagnostic tool for autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in adults)

- SRS-2 (ASD - social impairment)

- PAI (inventory that assesses personality traits and psychopathology - self-report)

- Beck Depression Inventory (depression - self-report)

- Beck Anxiety Inventory (anxiety - self-report)

I think there was more than this, but I wasn't counting. It was about 4 hours of test after test after test. I was told it would take 4-6 hours; I think I finished slightly under 4 hours, taking no breaks.

During the test when I asked what various things were for, they wouldn't tell me, so I don't know which test was for what. There was one that was pretty clearly for ADHD, it was on the computer and to hit space bar or something each time something came up on the screen at random intervals. That was the worst one. I sucked at it.

When getting the results, I spent most of the time asking if I could have gamed it, or if they were just a mill for handing these things out to anyone who seemed like they wanted it. I was told that since it is a mix of quantitative vs qualitative testing, with multiple tests that all have to align for a diagnosis, it would be nearly impossible to do that.

Some testing centers have online screening test, which are going to be better than the Buzzfeed style quizzes. But they are largely self-reports. For me, they were pretty accurate. For my dad, they seemed less accurate, as he has a lifetime of skills built up to help manage things and was taking all those into account. During testing some of those things came up, where they'd ask if I had an issue with X, and the answer was no, but it was because I did Y to make sure that didn't happen, which they said would be a coping mechanism or something.

I have heard some of the things you have about it being hard to get tested. For me, in the US, it was pretty easy. It did still take about 6 months, and cost me about $3k (I think) out of pocket. Insurance didn't cover it. But cost and waiting aside, there weren't any roadblocks standing in my way.

[danudey]

> During the test when I asked what various things were for, they wouldn't tell me, so I don't know which test was for what.

In a lot of cases they can't tell you because, either consciously or subconsciously, you will adjust your behavior and skew the test results. If you're told "this test is to evaluate your capacity for empathy" then your brain is going to start skewing your answers towards more empathetic ones because now that's the thing that's top of mind.

[al_borland]

Yeah, I understood why she wouldn't tell me, but I couldn't help myself from asking. I'm also glad she didn't tell me, as that was one of my big fears with the testing, that I wouldn't be able to trust it due to my own skewing of the results. When I first thought this might be my issue, I went deep down the rabbit hole, but once I scheduled testing I purposefully stopped reading and watching content about it, because I wanted to make sure I was answering for myself and not related to stuff I watched/saw.

This may be why I haven't done much since the diagnosis. It was initially all I wanted to do, but once several months passed while waiting, my interests shifted to other things, and going back to that topic has a lot less novelty to it, so I already did the early deep dive.

[southernplaces7]

What kind of testing for ADHD was given to you? Or more specifically, from what you've learned, what helped you diagnose it best? Even more importantly, what has helped you manage it better afterwards?

[al_borland]

I talk about the testing a bit here[0].

YouTube was actually the most helpful thing in getting me to the point where I felt testing for a diagnosis would be a good idea. There are a lot of channels out there from people who have this stuff who talk about their experiences. I found this much more helpful than reading the diagnostic criteria. While I did read the section of the DSM on ASD, I had to pair that with ChatGPT to ask for example of how this stuff presents in actual life. People on YouTube were a good source of seeing what people deal with and getting these real world examples of how things present, and I saw a lot of alignment to what they were talking about in my own life.

I'm scored pretty high in masking (hiding what's going on), so it's not something others usually pick up on me. Having ASD and ADHD, they can kind of help compensate for each other, so that can also lead to things hiding a bit to the outside world. I talked to a therapist for 2 years before this was even on my radar. I mentioned the possibility to him, and he was like... I don't see it, and then didn't seem to want to talk about it anymore. He was big into just blaming my dad for nearly everything. However, during several of our sessions over those 2 years we'd have a disagreement, where I'd try to explain what I'm feeling and he'd be like, "no, it's this." I'd tell him he wasn't understanding and try to explain further, and he just wouldn't get it. Back and forth for 30+ minutes. It was infuriating. Then as I was watching some of these videos that talked about neurotypical introverts vs autistic people, they basically said the introverts thought the way the therapist did, while people with autism tend to think the way I was arguing. So that's why he wasn't understanding me; he had the wrong framework for understanding the problem. There were many such examples like this in talking to him, but also throughout my whole life.

In terms of management, I haven't done much yet. I think I'm still in the period of processing it and finding it nice to take a break from searching for what the problem is after decades of looking. I feel like when I look at the typical advice, it's a lot of stuff I've already tried over the years from reading various books or taking various courses. I have a theory that the entire self-help genre is being fueled by people with undiagnosed ASD and ADHD. I quit therapy with the person I was seeing the day before getting my results. If I had it, he didn't seem like he could help me with it after brushing it aside for 6 months while I waiting for testing. If I didn't have it, I didn't feel like I was getting any value out of the sessions at all, so it was pointless. The places that did the testing said they had therapists, who would probably be better, but when I emailed the person she didn't reply back. I never followed up, so that's probably on me.

I haven't tried any meds for the ADHD, I'd have to talk to doctors about that. I'm on the fence on the whole idea. I've made it this far without them. I've also worked with people while they were trying to get their meds dialed in, and it was a nightmare. There are some valid arguments on both sides.

For the ASD there are no meds, as far as I understand. I probably need to force myself to go out into the world more. The pandemic really gave me an excuse to be alone all the time and 5 years later I haven't really stopped. I feel like it's making it worse, because I'm more out of practice of how to be around people.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44745215

[danudey]

> I haven't tried any meds for the ADHD, I'd have to talk to doctors about that. I'm on the fence on the whole idea. I've made it this far without them.

One of the nice things about medication for ADHD, and I've mentioned this to a few people who are new to having (or supporting people who have) ADHD, is that the medication is very straightforward and you get roughly instant feedback.

That is to say that, if you compare to something like SSRIs for treating depression, you get a medication and a dose picked out, you start on the medication, you get awful side effects for weeks, and then maybe after a few weeks you start to see some benefits. Then again, maybe you don't, so you spend a few weeks tapering off so that you can try some other medicine, etc and see if that has any benefit.

With ADHD medicines just being (mostly) short-acting stimulants, in a lot of cases people can get a prescription, take one dose, and find out within an hour or two if it's making a difference. There can definitely be side effects and getting the right medication and dosage can be a lot of work, but being able to take a medication at 8 AM and be feeling the effects before noon is amazing - and having them wear off by the evening is also amazing. You don't have to struggle with juggling your brain chemistry for weeks just to see if anything happens, and you don't have to spend weeks undoing that to be clear of it; you can start and stop in a day.

> For the ASD there are no meds, as far as I understand.

Well, because ASD isn't a disease or a condition, it's a difference in how (and how much) you perceive the world.

> I probably need to force myself to go out into the world more. The pandemic really gave me an excuse to be alone all the time and 5 years later I haven't really stopped. I feel like it's making it worse, because I'm more out of practice of how to be around people.

This is true for me as well, to some extent, but I've also gotten to the point where I don't really care that much about masking or fitting in any more than necessary. I'm open about being neurodivergent, I'm not afraid to discuss it, and thankfully I'm in an industry where a lot of people are the same way - diagnosed or not - and at least kind of get it to some degree. Still important to not just be "outright weird" as some autistic people can be, so I'm not going to start telling our lead marketing strategist about the human leather and organ trading outpost I set up in Rimworld, but being open about it has made it a lot more relaxing to be around other people.

Maybe part of that is getting rid of the "what if they think I'm weird?" worry after realizing that eventually they're going to think I'm weird regardless and I just have to be sure to come across as "harmless weird" and not come across as "stranger danger weird".

[al_borland]

Thanks for the insights on the meds. I heard from some people that they can also just be taken as needed. So I could potentially go without them most days, but if I need/want to get something done, or am having a particularly hard time getting moving on something, that can be a tool in my tool belt.

The biggest hurdle to trying right now is the act of finding and setting up an appointment with someone. I've been putting it off until "later" for probably 8 months.

> I don't really care that much about masking

I don't even know who I am. I had to mask just to be in my family growing up, so when people talk about unmasking... I have no idea how to do that. It's so engrained into me. I'm typically pretty quiet when I meet new people, around people I don't know well, or don't see often. I thought this was just me, but have come to realize it's me putting on a blank mask until I can figure out how to act around these new or less familiar people. When I've tried to rush this process in the past it's been awkward.

[southernplaces7]

Thanks to both of you above, both commentators, for the detailed responses. Digesting them right now before replying further. I was asking specifically because, well, at my age after years of extreme difficulties with focus, I think it's time to dig a bit deeper into remedies and possible causes.

[reactordev]

Aspb ‘83 baby, that’s 80s parenting for you. Boomers saying “Oh he’s just hyper” or “Oh he’s shy” or “Oh she’s just in her own world” and brushing it under the rug. Combine that with processed food additives of the 90s and I look exactly the same as I did in high school only with grey hair instead of brown!

[al_borland]

I actually remember telling my dad in the late 80s or early 90s that I thought I had ADD after I first heard about it. He simply said, “no son of mine has ADD,” without even breaking stride. That was that. I was never a problem in school, so no one had any reason to question it and I moved on.

Funny enough, when I told my dad about the diagnosis, within 90 seconds he said, “I think I might have that too.” Then he went off and did a bunch of research. He doesn’t feel it’s worth getting a diagnosis in his 70s, but is pretty sure he has it as well after the research. Funny how life works out. This actually helped me forgive some of the harder parts of my childhood, as I could better understand where he was coming from.

[MrGilbert]

However, as it can be a valid indicator for ADHD, it is fine to do a test, like[1] offers. It's difficult to diagnose adults, but I was surprised to see a quite high rate of matches in the test. I share the same "problems" as OP: I quit projects because I was able to solve the problem at hand.

[1]: https://www.adxs.org/en/

[danudey]

> I don't think it has to be ADHD.

It definitely doesn't have to be ADHD, but that loop of "new interest" -> "hyperfixation for a period of time" -> "no interest" is classic ADHD, and in almost all of the people I know who do have ADHD this was the first major sign for them.

There is definitely a difference between starting projects that don't turn out to be interesting or useful and not bothering, but the way OP described their experiences is textbook and should definitely not be minimized as it is definitely not the typical case for neurotypical people.

> I don't have ADHD, and none of my friends have it that I know of. We all start things we don't finish, though.

One of the other things I've noticed about people with ADHD or autism, even undiagnosed, is that they tend to congregate together - neurodivergent people tend to cluster together through similar interests and thought patterns. This leads to the logic of "I don't think I have ADHD because everyone is like this", but that's a selection bias that hides the distinction that people could otherwise make.

> think finishing things is a crucial skill, and we need to practice it in order to get good at it, and we won't do that if we tell ourselves it's about as good to give up as it is to keep going.

Again, this sort of phrasing can minimize the impact of the executive dysfunction inherent with ADHD; again, not saying that you or the OP definitely do have ADHD, but this idea that "finishing things is just something you need to practice at" is the ADHD equivalent of "have you tried not being sad?" For many ADHD people, it just does not, and cannot, work that way, or at least not without interventions like medication and conscious coping strategies.

> since that will end up being an excuse rather than an explanation for a lot of people

I dislike this line of thinking, because it sort of inherently (if subconsciously) implies that, without a real diagnosis from a professional (which can cost thousands of dollars that people don't have), it's probably just an excuse people are making for... what? being lazy? being incompetent? ...and that we shouldn't take those explanations seriously. If we want to destigmatize neurodivergence then we need to be willing to take people at their word and support them.

If someone says "I can't finish projects because I'm so ADHD lol", then you can either say "that's just an excuse unless a psychologist has said otherwise" or you can say "If that's the case, how can we support you, and what are you working on to support yourself?" and, if those supports don't work, then you look for alternate explanations.