[zvmaz]

The fear of asking stupid questions is real, especially if one has had a bad experience with humiliating teachers or professors. I just recently saw a video of a professor subtly shaming and humiliating his students for answering questions to his own online quiz. He teaches at a prestigious institution and has a book that has a very good reputation. I stopped watching his video lectures.

[johnnyanmac]

So instead of correcting the teachers with better training, we retreat from education and give it to technocrats? Why are we so afraid of punishing bad, unproductive, and even illegal behavior in 2025?

[puszczyk]

Looks like we were unable to correct them over the last 3k years. What has changes in 2025 that you think we will succeed in correcting that behavior?

Not US based, Central/Eastern Europe: the selection to the teacher profession is negative, due to low salary compared to private sector; this means that the unproductive behaviors are likely going to increase. I'm not saying the AI is the solution here for low teacher salaries, but training is def not the right answer either, and it is a super simplistic argument: "just train them better".

[johnnyanmac]

>Looks like we were unable to correct them over the last 3k years.

What makes you say that?

>What has changes in 2025 that you think we will succeed in correcting that behavior?

60 years ago, corporal punishment was commonplace. Today it is absolutely forbidden. I don't think behaviors among professions need that much time to be changed. I'm sure you can point to behaviors commonplace 10 years ago that have changed in your workplace (for better or worse).

But I suppose your "answer" is 1) a culture more willing to hold professionals accountable instead of holding them as absolute authority and 2) surveillance footage to verify claims made against them. This goes back to Hammurabi: if you punish a bad behavior, many people will adjust.

>the selection to the teacher profession is negative, due to low salary compared to private sector; this means that the unproductive behaviors are likely going to increase.

I'm really holding back my urge to be sarcastic here. I'm trying really hard. But how do I say "well fund your teachers" in any nuanced way? You get what you pay for. A teacher in a classroom of broken windows will not shine inspiration on the next generation.

This isn't a knock on your culture: the US is at a point where a stabucks barista part-time is paid more than some schoolteachers.

>but training is def not the right answer either

I fail to see why not. "We've tried nothing and run out of ideas!", as a famous American saying. Tangible actions:

1) participate in your school board if you have one, be engaged with who is in charge of your education sectors. Voice your concerns with them, and likely any other town or city leaders since I'm sure the problem travels upstream to "we didn't get enough funding from the town"

2) if possible in your country, 100% get out and vote in local elections. The US does vote in part of its boards for school districts, and the turnout for these elections are pathetic. Getting you and a half dozen friends to a voting booth can in fact swing an election.

3) if there's any initiatives, do make sure to vote for funding for educational sectors. Or at least vote against any cuts to education.

4) in general, push for better labor laws. If a minimum wage needs to be higher, do that. Or job protections.

There are actions to take. They don't happen overnight. But we didn't get to this situation overnight either.

[christianqchung]

> This isn't a knock on your culture: the US is at a point where a stabucks barista part-time is paid more than some schoolteachers.

I don't think this is meaningfully true. I found a resource that shows the average teacher salary to be $72,030 [0]. The average starting salary is lower at $46,526, but a 40 hour workweek at $20 for a Starbucks barista tips-included is about $41k. Here in Massachusetts, the average teacher salary is $92,076. In Mississippi, it's $53,704. You can maybe find some full time (not part time) Starbucks baristas that make slightly more than starting teachers, but after a couple of years the teacher will pull ahead. However, since the higher paying Starbucks jobs are in places with higher costs of living, I would assume that the teacher pay would be higher in those places too, so it's a wash.

> "We've tried nothing and run out of ideas!", as a famous American saying.

Ironically Mississippi of all states has experimented by holding back more poor performing kids instead of letting them advance to the next grade, with some success in rising test scores: "Boston University researchers released a study this year comparing Mississippi students who were narrowly promoted to fourth grade to those who just missed the cutoff. It found that by sixth grade, those retained had substantial gains on English language arts scores compared with those who were promoted, especially among African-American and Hispanic students." [1].

This doesn't disprove what you're saying (and there are some caveats to the Mississippi experiment), but there is definitely low hanging fruit to improve the American teaching system. Just because teaching is a thousands year old profession doesn't mean modern day processes can't be improved by ways not involving salaries/direct training.

[0] https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-studen...

[1] https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/more-states-threaten-t...?

[johnnyanmac]

I'll admit "some schoolteacher" is doing some heavy lifting here. It shouldn't be that close to begin with when you remember that school teachers need extra license/acreddidation (so, more post secondary education whose costs run rampant) and arguably have a much more stressful job.

>there is definitely low hanging fruit to improve the American teaching system.

Sure, you can patch the window up and make sure it at least tries to protect from the elements. But we should properly fix it at some point too. How many of those kids would have not been held back if they had a proper instructor to begin with? Or an instructor that didn't need to quit midway into the school year in order to find a job that does pay rent?

[digital_voodoo]

At a system level, this totally makes sense. But as an individual learner, what would be my motivation to do so, when I can "just" actually learn my subject and move on?

[johnnyanmac]

>But as an individual learner, what would be my motivation to do so

Because if there's one thing the older generations is much better than us at, it's complaining about the system and getting them to kowtow to them. We dismiss systematic change as if it doesn't start with the individual, and are surprised that the system ignores or abuses us.

We should be thinking short and long term. Learn what you need to learn today, but if you want better education for you and everyone else: you won't get it by relinquishing the powers you have to evoke change.

[baby]

You might also be working with very uncooperative coworkers, or impatient ones

[chrisDONTblink]

I told u my word "I WILL NEVER BREAK" but this time im gonna be so patient so u will never see whats coming. and im just making my list so i can put a tick next to every name i do my project on. i made sure all addresses cars and members have been noted down. and i promise u that i wont give up till the job is finished. after all i seen and witnessed, u wont be able to even imagine what its gonna be like and then you will finially understand the meaning of DONT F>>>K WITH ME. u fat smelly DYKE!