[tmnvix]

In response to the dead response... (not sure why it is dead)

> Israel will not agree to a right to return

This government will not.

My view is that the Israeli state is failing through its own actions and at some point will experience regime change (i.e. a drastic change in government - possibly, or possibly not as a result of a democratic election). I expect that a new regime may not be Zionist (at least not in the exclusionary sense we are familiar with) and could well introduce something similar to South Africa's truth and reconciliation commission.

That type of government could very possibly recognise the right of return - possibly in some compromised form such as a willingness to pay compensation as has happened following other colonialist endeavours.

[umanwizard]

It is not just the government. The overwhelming majority of Israelis are opposed to what you're suggesting and there's no way to force them to accept it (they have nuclear weapons).

A global coordinated sanctions regime might work, like it did on South Africa, but that is pretty unlikely to ever happen because outside of Arab states, almost no country is opposed to Israel’s existence within its recognized borders. If Israel stopped actively oppressing/colonizing Gaza and the West Bank, opposition against them would evaporate, even if they remain an explicitly Jewish state and never grant right of return for the descendants of Nakba refugees.

[tmnvix]

> ...almost no country is opposed to Israel’s existence within its recognized borders

Unfortunately Israel itself seems opposed to this. Part of the reason they are authoring their own demise in my opinion.

[flyinglizard]

Israel gave Arabs land larger than its entire current size in the quest for peaceful coexistence (Gaza, Sinai and you could count in West Bank in terms of PLO governance).

[vkou]

> Israel gave Arabs land

If I move into your house without your permission, and let you sleep on the floor in the crawlspace, would that be called 'giving you a place to live'? What if that were coupled with regular beatings, and/or starving you?

[flyinglizard]

That's not what happened, though.

1) Jews were always a part of historical Palestine. Sometimes more and sometimes less but were always present. Around 1900, 50 years before the formation of Israel, there were about 50k Jews (about 10% of the population). You can see it especially in cities like Safed, Tiberias and Jerusalem which were Jewish centers.

2) Jews that came later largely bought their way in, rather than forced Arabs out. There were violent clashes but usually it was friction between the populations, and not outright conquest.

3) The forceful expulsion of population came as the result of the 1948 war which was opened by Arabs and not by Israel.

So to correct your analogy, the Arabs here are like a violent HOA which doesn't like the new group of residents who bought their way in. They fight and they lose. Tough luck, right?

[vkou]

There's a difference between people moving into an area and a nation state moving into an area.

If you think think 1948 was started by the Arabs, you're obviously missing some vital context. Vital context, like 'A nation state started colonizing them without their permission'.

The colonization continued, with more land grabs at gunpoint for the next 80 years.

[umanwizard]

> Around 1900, 50 years before the formation of Israel, there were about 50k Jews (about 10% of the population).

That's a funny starting point to pick, since 1900 was about ten years after the beginning of mass Zionist migration to Palestine. How many were there in 1880?

[tmnvix]

> Israel gave Arabs land

That's a strange way to put it.