[hodgehog11]

Good for you. Meanwhile, many other people have been encountering _serious_ issues for much of those 10 years. This is well documented. Downplaying the issues of other users is a great way to make people dislike the product.

[mort96]

And I encounter _serious_ issues when I use X. Neither is perfect, but this insistence that Wayland is "not ready" because it doesn't have certain people's pet features ignores the silent majority for whom it just works and works better than X ever did.

This is not me downplaying those issues some people encounter in Wayland. But I think you're sort of doing the opposite.

(And, Wayland is not a "product".)

[rcxdude]

Because wayland is 'ready' when X can be properly killed, i.e. wayland is working for essentially all users. As it stands a huge fraction of users have issues with it, because most users have at least one 'pet feature' which they are not willing to give up.

[mort96]

As far as I'm concerned, a technology being "ready" (for mainstream adoption or whatever) means that it works better than or equally well as what it's replacing for most people and at least "well enough" for a significant majority. As far as I can tell, we've been there for a while with Wayland. The vast majority of people don't have to care that they're on Wayland.

[lern_too_spel]

X doesn't work for essentially all users. It works for substantially fewer users than Wayland does. There are several features that X is missing, and you might call them "pet features" but they are features that the vast majority of graphical desktop users expect these days.

[hodgehog11]

That's quite the claim; maybe you operate in different circles than I do, but most power users I know still avoid Wayland like the plague. X doesn't have support most of the modern fancy features, yes. But on older hardware, which people with less money usually have, X works.

[lern_too_spel]

People with less money don't have old computers. They have Chromebooks, which use Wayland.

[spauldo]

X still works great for me. I figure I'll give Wayland a try after another decade or so.

[exiguus]

What are this issues beside VNC or ssh -X does not work? Or my Software Y (still) does not support Wayland?

[yjftsjthsd-h]

Actually I don't think any of those are problems?

* VNC is covered by wayvnc (unless you're on GNOME or maybe? KDE, but those have their own implementations)

* ssh -X should be covered by waypipe

* application software should generally work in XWayland (which okay is a little cheaty but if it works it works)

The two pain points I'm currently aware of are:

* Unified vs fractured ecosystem: In practice, everyone on X11 used Xorg and every window manager and desktop environment had the same basic features because of it. You could always control the keyboard layout via setxkbmap, every screenshot tool worked everywhere, xrandr/arandr were always available to configure displays, etc. In Wayland there is never one answer to anything; not every compositor lets you configure the keyboard and if they do each one has their own way to do it, there are 3 different screenshot protocols (supposedly KDE and wlroots are converging so only GNOME will be doing their own thing but I'm not holding my breath), display configuration is completely up to compositor choice, etc.

* The accessibility story isn't there. There's work on it, so eventually the outcome will probably be "just throw out the a11y tools you're used to and switch to these new ones", but for now the current status is "they're working on it but it isn't there yet".

[Zambyte]

> ssh -X

waypipe

[zveyaeyv3sfye]

Link to any open issue you are encountering so we can discuss it then.

[hodgehog11]

I said "most" of those 10 years, since it has become much better now, especially on AMD. Nvidia is still a disaster on Wayland though, basic screen sharing apps like Zoom are broken for many users, even with PipeWire.

The response to this is usually "that program is bad, it has problems and that isn't the fault of Wayland, don't use it". But Wayland broke userspace. If these programs all work well on X, that is a Wayland problem.