[jt2190]

> … CCs should be an exception, not the norm they are now, with a bunch of embedded costs we all pay for, one way or another.

To spell it out, the merchant pays fees to the payment processor and carries risk (chargebacks, etc) and these costs are included (“embedded”) in the purchase price of whatever you’re buying.

Moving to instant pay moves these risks to the purchaser, which is probably not ideal for the merchant because it forces purchasers to be more careful with their spending. New merchants in particular would have to work harder to establish their reputation. Larger merchants would probably start offering credit again.

Where “insta pay” shines is for merchants with less credit worthy customers, because it allows them to operate online and in an electronic world. Currently in the U.S. that job is done with cash, but perhaps very soon with privately issued stablecoins. I guess the big question is whether the U.S. government should issue a stablecoin or similar electronic cash-like thing.

[ozgrakkurt]

It is just better in my experience.

You just scan a QR code and pay.

Not much point of using a credit card unless you want to spend money that you don’t have. Or to think you are making “points” by spending more money

[mvieira38]

You're wasting a relevant amount of money by not using a credit card in Brazil. Interest rates are so high right now they have reached 1% monthly, which you can pocket by just delaying payment on everything for a month. And credit is stupid cheap here, too, with a bunch of different picks for free credit cards giving thousands of reais for anyone.

If you have some money you can easily get a card with high cashback, as well, in the 1%+ territory depending on if you want big banks or not, and pay no fees.

[vitorgrs]

Some places give you a discount if you buy things on Pix. Buying on CC is kinda an illusion.

It's more worth to buy things with Pix, and use things like Inter/Meliuz to use 10%~ cashback on stores...

(of course, if you don't want to use insurance or installments).

Btw, my father produce furniture and industrial products, and we always make the price clear to the customer, including what the price would be depending on the payment method. It might not be ideal, but… we prefer to give the transparency to the clients. Because of this, I do say 90% of the clients these days pay only with Pix. A few years ago it was all CC or debit cards.

[rodrigodlu]

Not always. I tried to buy a laptop on Lenovo's website. They rejected my credit cards several times, despite my Serasa credit rating maxed out, etc etc.

But then they offered me the laptop with enough discount that was a no brainer. I obviously calculated the difference between 1x, 12x with the hidden interest - cashback and Pix.

So 3 days lost trying to buy the thing, then instant approval and next day delivery when I paid with Pix.

When I bought the NSW2 on pre sale, it was better to use installments, get some cashback, etc.

[mvieira38]

I meant for everyday stuff, not larger purchases where discounts may apply, I may have oversimplified. I do buy stuff with Pix now and then, but day-to-day NFC credit is my go-to

[ozgrakkurt]

I live in central Asia, inflation is very low where I live.

But yeah I get the point. It was similar in Turkey, but still wasn’t that valuable to save 1% unless you are really trying to squeeze hard

[gruez]

>It is just better in my experience.

>You just scan a QR code and pay.

Tap to pay (ie. NFC) with credit cards is as convenient and arguably more convenient than a QR code solution. At the very least you don't have to worry about aiming at the QR code and waiting for it to scan/focus, which is especially important if you're using it on transit systems.

[vitorbaptistaa]

Pix already has tap to pay [1]. However it's still a recent adition (a few months), so most card machines still don't support it (AFAIK).

Once this is widespread, then the only reasons to use credit will be cashback/points or paying in credit.

[1] https://www.gov.br/secom/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2025/02/pix...

[vitorgrs]

Most card machines support it. The PoS just need to accept Google Pay and it will accept it.

[ozgrakkurt]

Still prefer a debit card for this, credit aspect just hasn’t been of any use to me so far. And I see people getting into problem because of credit cards a lot.

[vitorgrs]

You can use Tap to Pay with Pix. Although only Google Pay support Pix solution. Apple Pay is refusing because... fees.

[kevin_thibedeau]

This also doesn't require functional cell service.

[marcosdumay]

Tap to pay leaves you at the mercy of all the usual bullshit credit card processors impose.

What means that if you have a very normal behavior, yes, it's more convenient. If you deviate from the norm in any way, it's an unreliable piece of shit that will leave you hanging without money the moment you need it most.

And as deviant people drop out of that system, the bar for deviance gets lower and lower.

[gruez]

>Tap to pay leaves you at the mercy of all the usual bullshit credit card processors impose.

1. "Tap to pay" refers to a technology, specifically NFC communications. Anyone can use it, not just "credit card processors". For instance, many transit agencies also use NFC for their passes/tickets, and those obviously aren't being intermediated by "credit card processors".

2. Any sort of centralized system will be susceptible to "all the usual bullshit credit card processors impose". At least with credit card companies there's theoretically a degree of independence from the government. A government run payments system, staffed by government appointed cronies would be even more susceptible to government pressure to block certain groups.

[jt2190]

> Not much point of using a credit card unless you want to spend money that you don’t have.

This is absolutely not why millions of people use credit cards. To repeat: Immediately handing cash to a merchant carries risk for the purchaser. What if the product is defective, or the order never filled, etc?

[vitorgrs]

This is really not a issue in Brazil. Consumers laws are strong. I actually prefer to use Pix for exact this reason, because I can get the refund in 1 second, literally (already did with Amazon). While with credit cards that's not the case.

[jt2190]

So the merchant is assuming more risk because the customer can take back their money... How long does the merchant need to wait before they're certain the payment they have received can't be taken back?

[vitorgrs]

If is online, over the phone, etc., you can return or cancel for any reason within 7 days. And this also include services. For example, if I sign up with a new ISP, I can cancel it within that 7-day period (even if it have a 1 year contract).

If it's in-person you bought something, technically you can only return up to 30 days for non durable goods, and 90 days for durable goods, if there's some problems with the product, or a reason etc.

[rodrigodlu]

With stronger consumer protection laws I will just send the thing back. If the merchant does not honor, is an easy case to win on the small claims courts.

The risk is buying from shady merchants and platforms that don't care about the legal system, or can delay the resolution of the dispute.

For instance buying from China on AliExpress, I will obviously not use Pix (through AliPay), but my credit card.

[pm215]

At least in the UK, one advantage of the credit card is that it puts the transaction under the consumer credit act. That means that for purchases above 100 quid the credit card company is jointly on the hook with the supplier if, for example, the supplier fails to deliver the goods because they go bust, or if the goods are faulty, and you can get your money back from the credit card company if necessary. This doesn't apply for debit card purchases.

[didibus]

The thing with a credit card, is that when I buy something online, or it never gets delivered, or turns out to be crap, I can get the credit card company to reimburse me.

And in person, if someone manages to copy it and fraud me, I can also get it resolved and have the credit card company pay me back.

Do these instant payment system offer similar protections?

[rodrigodlu]

There's the small claims courts for that, strong consumer protection laws.

Also some banks are offering insurance on trial basis already.

But yeah, I prefer CC on international platforms, or if the cashback is higher than the discount they offer via Pix (5% to 20%).

Lenovo offered me 20% on a Laptop recently through Pix.

With the discount I paid a bit more on broader support, keep your disks, liquid damage protection.

[elzbardico]

And from someone who lived in Brazil. Small claims court fucking suck. A kafkian nightmare compared to a chargeback.

[whatevaa]

New merchants are then hit with fraudulent chargebacks with ridiculous fees (they are ridiculous for small purchases) and all the benefits of credits cads evaporate for a merchant.

Being more careful with purchases is a net benefit to society in general.