[Barrin92]

>It's a much bigger question why, such a completely natural and normal thing, like nudity, [...] be made and exclusive thing.

As Nietzsche said, the time has come when we have to pay for having been Christians for two thousand years. That's the simple answer, nudity and sexuality (also entirely natural and normal), have been deemed sinful, you're supposed to avert your eyes from it, and so on. It's so deeply ingrained in Western culture even secularized people still haven't shaken it.

It varies though, being German with half of my family having lived in the GDR, it is funny to see in particular Americans when you talk about nude beaches or mixed saunas and the general Freikörperkultur (lit: free body culture) that was so common and still has carried over.

[aredox]

It is even more amazing when you consider that in the USA, it was normal (for boys) to bath in the nude, indoor but sometimes with spectators, and even to have to show their genitals to the teacher or pool attendant.

This has been completely memory-holed despite the fact many people alive today should remember it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_swimming_in_US_indoor_poo...

https://www.wbez.org/shows/curious-city/baring-it-all-why-bo...

https://www.npr.org/2006/08/01/5597441/naked-in-high-school-...

[hellojesus]

> it is funny to see in particular Americans when you talk about nude beaches or mixed saunas and the general Freikörperkultur (lit: free body culture) that was so common and still has carried over

How is general nudity of adult men considered by those participants? I always assumed that my nakedness would be perceived as a display of mateability, and I am concerned that my penis size relative to other men would reduce my attractiveness to women.

Note: I am not sure how I compare to others in the general population, as I live the typical American lifestyle. Also, I think Germans are statistically one of the greater endowed populations, so maybe this isn't as much an issue for them.

[bloak]

Most women are not interested in penis size. (Though some are, obviously.)

At a normal nude beach, with all age groups represented, people don't show off an erect penis. (Though there are beaches where that happens.)

Median erect penis length is about 13-14 cm and I don't think there's credible evidence for the median varying much between countries of Europe and North America. (Though there is some evidence for a smaller or larger median in some places outside Europe and North America.)

Does that help? (I'm not an expert but I think I know enough to write what I have just written.)

[hellojesus]

It does to some extent. At least your data is similar to what I've read.

I think the problem is that even if I was one standard deviation above the mean, that's still only about the 68% percentile. So it's expected that 3 of every 10 dudes would be better endowded than me, and I'm sure nude beaches bias in sample towards the more well endowed. So likely I won't be laughed at but won't be a genetic prize, and I'm not sure I'm confident enough (or ever will be) to accept that as public knowledge.

[quantified]

Lots of women understand grower vs shower. So you need to get to grown stage to make that determination. Over the course of a day or two of observation, it will show.

[tremon]

you're supposed to avert your eyes from it

Only if it leads you to sin, right? According to the original, if you can look at a naked body without immediately humping it, you're free to keep looking.

[tjs8rj]

Every civilized culture on earth has norms against public nudity. Objectively there appears to be something more biologically successful about cultures where nudity is reserved for private spaces than those who treat it otherwise

[diggan]

> Every civilized culture on earth has norms against public nudity

Well, not every "civilized culture" has a blanket ban on public nudity, but more of a "there is a time and place you know", like doing sauna naked and swimming naked in rivers/lakes (common in the Nordics at least) or being semi-nude (topless) at public beaches in Spain. Breastfeeding without having to shamefully cover up also seems to be more and more accepted, at least in the countries I frequent (mostly around Europe).

I'm sure there are more examples of "civilized cultures" where it's accepted sometimes to be nude or semi-nude.

[tjs8rj]

A norm is a norm, the normal, the usual. Not the “always”. Every culture has times where nudity is acceptable or encouraged (it’d be ab-norm-al for you to shower or use the bathroom without exposing your genitals).

[walthamstow]

Japanese bathing culture is very nude indeed, but gender-segregated

[Barrin92]

>Every civilized culture on earth has norms against public nudity

Every civilized society has norms for everything, that's the tautological definition of what being civilized means. It's how civilized people define success. But this is not culture (as per Nietzsche) but just the opposite of it. To think the two are synonymous is exactly what he attributes to Christianity.

The Danish mixed nude beach goer is indeed technically less civilized but no less cultured, free, vital or unburdened by social anxieties about her body or conduct, she's strong-willed exactly to the extent that she's uncivilized.