[kgermino]

May be my age, but I wouldn't say any of those brands are a mark of quality. Rather the opposite in fact.

They are all interesting in their own way (especially Tesla), but certainly not quality/reliability-first organizations.

[giantg2]

Is any mass produced car made by a quality first org? I'm sure we can dig in and find examples. Someone brought up Toyota and Japanese cars. How about the unintended acceleration issue and the frag airbags?

[kgermino]

I don’t know where we’d draw the line for “quality first” but I’d argue Toyota at minimum qualifies

That doesn’t mean they’re perfect: cars are incredibly complex machines and mistakes are inevitable. But the airbag issue was a vendor (used by many companies) and IIRC the acceleration issue wasn’t that much bigger in Toyotas than other makes

[giantg2]

There were no reports of the unintentional acceleration in other makes.

[hn_acc1]

Too young for the major news headlines about Audi?

[giantg2]

True, I was considering the same timeframe as the Toyota issue. However, their reputation would likely be supportive of quality and be another example for my point.

[kgermino]

What? Unintended acceleration happens _all the time_. It’s usually driver error or a stuck floor mat. The vast majority are drivers who hit the accelerator thinking it’s the brakes then panic when the car speeds up. Toyota had some design issues that seemed to make it more likely (though the software was found to be fine) and got attention due to a viral 911 call and a poor response.

They were absolutely not the only make with unintentional accretion reports/issues at that time; nor presumably today, but I haven’t seen recent numbers

[giantg2]

Fine, let me be more specific - unintended acceleration due to mechanical design issues (sticking pedal, even without floor mats). The point is, Toyota was raised as an example of quality, yet here we have a design issue. This also shouldn't be a surprise since the floor mat issue can be solved by design changes sound on other vehicles. So yes, manufacturers can make good and bad products. There are no manufactures who make only perfect products - it's not a surprise the P320 could have issues when the poster holds the P365 in such high esteem. The only thing that statement really displays is the suppression of cognitive dissonance being suddenly unachievable.

[andrewmcwatters]

Ford, GM, and Tesla are all bottom barrel automakers. All three of them relying on the government to prop them up, too. Otherwise, the Japanese market would have obliterated the American automotive industry ages ago.

[umeshunni]

> Otherwise, the Japanese market would have obliterated the American automotive industry ages ago

Or the Chinese in the last 5 years like they have done in Europe and rest of the world.

[andrewmcwatters]

Yeah, I feel like BYD would kill Tesla if they sold cars here.