[UncleMeat]

It is true that unions often have a leveling effect on wages across workers. But you are missing a big part of it. They also take a larger share of the pot from the owners. So while a particularly strong engineer might be giving up some earnings to less skilled engineers, the pot is larger to start with.

[bpt3]

And because the stronger engineers are giving up some earnings to the less skilled engineers, the larger pot doesn't matter to them.

Unions basically buy job security for a fixed duration of time for their members by offering concessions related to compensation. Competent workers in a non-declining field (i.e. pretty much all of tech) already have job security via their skills, and don't need to explicitly guarantee it by giving up some compensation to offset that risk for the employer.

It makes even less sense for software development since it can be moved overseas so easily in most cases.

[UncleMeat]

What if the pot is very large.

I am paid very well. But my employer makes so much in profit that any loss to other engineers would be vastly outweighed by the amount won from the bosses.

Unions are not just about job security. They can fight for compensation and benefits. And job security is not some meaningless thing, even for competent workers. Getting laid off still sucks even if you can find another job. If you are here on a work visa that's going to be stressful as all hell even if you are a massively in-demand engineer. We can also see what happens when there are coordinated layoffs by the bosses. It is definitely not the case that all competent engineers are having fast turnarounds to get another job right now.

[gitremote]

The leveling effect is because poor negotiators, people without powerful networks, and people in disadvantaged positions have people negotiating on their behalf from a position of strength, not because people who are paid less on average (women and racial minorities) are mostly shit workers.

[UncleMeat]

I agree with you, but I'm trying to accept the framing from the comment above to get them to see the benefits of unions even if they cannot be disabused of the idea that existing pay is meritocratic.

[gitremote]

Unions help level racial and gender pay gaps. The framing that this is because high skilled workers are compensating low skilled workers, that the current situation is meritocratic and white men are naturally superior, is implicitly white supremacist and misogynist. We didn't push back on this, because we tried to find common ground with the other side who never had anyone or any social obstacle challenge this framing of natural hierarchies. However, the consequence now is that fascism is mainstream and part of the government, which thinks DEI is about hiring low quality people.