[graemep]

> The worst part is that you still have European governments who feel the need to give lessons of democracy to China et al.

They need to highlight that we are nothing like as bad a China. We look good in comparison.

> this proposal coming from the EU who is supposedly politically in the center

Is it? Its the only country in the world with a constitutional commitment to privatisation (its in the treaties, which are the constitution, and came close to being called a constitution).

[rdm_blackhole]

> Its the only country in the world

The EU is not a country. It may very well be in 50 years from now but not presently.

> > this proposal coming from the EU who is supposedly politically in the center

I said `supposedly`.

> They need to highlight that we are nothing like as bad a China. We look good in comparison.

Not if they go through with this proposal. You can't claim to be a bastion of democracy and want/need to spy on your citizens 24/7. These 2 notions are just not compatible.

[graemep]

> The EU is not a country. It may very well be in 50 years from now but not presently.

Semantics. its near enough to being one to compare to countries in terms of law, policy and constitution.

> I said `supposedly`.

Depends what you mean by supposedly, I suppose! Its intent is clearly not centrist.

> Not if they go through with this proposal.

Still far better than China. No prison for holding the wrong views, or following the wrong religion, or having the wrong culture. No genocide. Having elections.

I am not happy with where the west is going, but comparing with China its still far better (against a low base).