[smackeyacky]

Valid assessment. The CIO in question did not have a technical background as was far more interested in fostering cliques than good engineering practices. The culture of the place was toxic as a result, it rewarded surveillance and not performance. It promoted fantasy land project managers who ignored reality.

Still, it made me very wary of the idea that devops is separate to development.

[JohnMakin]

Managing relationships with project management and the difficulty that entails with most devops orgs where ive been is a symptom of the same problem I feel is being circled around. Good devops managers manage around these realities really well, can think of some specific examples in my head - it’s very much a several way conversation that should punish silos. however in practice it seems to reward it. If devops worked with and closely with devs you do not need layers of semi competent project managers in between acting like glorified note takers.