[meemo]

Even though this is a recall, a bad thing, it actually makes me more likely to buy from Anker than a no-name brand on Amazon. Those no-name brands almost definitely have problems like this (or worse), but we rarely hear about them.

[Fergusonb]

I read the article linked above with all of the testing they did to identify the cause, I'd definitely have no trouble buying from them in the future.

Reminiscent of the tylenol case study, handled a tough situation correctly and it's still on the shelf.

[Spooky23]

Eh. Anker did the bare minimum to address their liability.

They won’t pay for devices that Amazon says are in scope, but the black on black serial number is illegible.

For devices that are covered, they advise you to not dispose of them at a retailer like Home Depot that accepts lithium batteries, but provides no means to safely dispose of this fire hazard. So I got my $40 payment, but I assume now that will disclaim any liability when my house or car goes on fire while I try to find a facility that accepts dangerous batteries.

[Pxtl]

Honestly, when shopping no-name slop I'm seeking out products that don't have batteries, or at least don't have powerful ones (non-vibrating game controllers are probably pretty safe). One less risk.

[turnsout]

100%... I'm seeking products that take AA or AAA batteries instead of built-in lithium batteries, for the same reason.

[Zak]

I wish more devices took field-replaceable cylindrical Li-ion cells. They're pretty common in flashlights and rare in other products where they would be advantageous.

[y7r4m]

It would be awesome if we were able to get more things besides vapes (and apparently some flashlights; I assume there are many niches where they are common) to use 18650 or even 21700 li-ion cells. I see most people I know buy AAs by the pallet and go through them regularly for their controllers, led lights, kids toys, etc.. and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly.

Also, repeating your sentiment, for all the tech gadgets.. bluetooth speakers, I'm looking at you.. why not have replaceable batteries for those? There have to be enough vapers now that the knowledge of this type of battery as distinct from the old alkaline ones has passed into mainstream consciousness. This would be a huge selling feature for me.

The reasons I see are that it is because the rechargable li-ion are more dangerous and a fire hazard, but is this really true? As with most anything that can carry a risk if misused, I can find a few dozen instances where a vape battery went awry, but surely the benefits outweigh the concerns?

Edit: I do understand the irony of saying this on a post about when they do go boom.

[kube-system]

The market for the end product (and the risk aversion of the manufacturer) makes a difference.

Flashlight and vape enthusiasts are mostly adults who likely trend as all three of: older and more knowledgeable, more likely to take and accept risks, and more willing to pay a premium for the benefits of replaceable batteries... and the companies that make vapes and high-powered enthusiast flashlights are probably less worried about a customer suing them over a battery issue than a large toy manufacturer. If you're a vape company, you have bigger safety issues to worry about -- like the normal operation of your products :)

[joecool1029]

> and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly.

There are no mercury alkalines anymore for general consumer use, those collection bins were removed from stores in the 90's and they can be disposed of with normal waste.

[Zak]

I actually have a Bluetooth speaker that takes a removable 18650. It was branded "Polaris V8", but I think it's a white label product that's no longer in production. It still works, and most other ten year old Bluetooth speakers probably don't.

I'm with you on the risk/benefit calculation. E-waste is bad, and the option to bring a spare battery makes a lot of products more useful. A Li-ion cell can be dangerous if mishandled, but less so than a jug of gasoline or larger power tools.

This can be considerably mitigated by sticking a protection circuit on the end of a cell, which makes it no more dangerous than the proprietary Li-ion batteries used in things like cameras.

[Clamchop]

I didn't know many were still buying alkaline AAs in large quantities. I've been using LSD NiMH AAs and AAAs for I think more than 15 years and haven't looked back. They seem to work with everything.

[homebrewer]

There's still lots of poorly produced electronics that treat NiMH that is within its normal operating voltage as being out of juice, and either nag you or shut down completely. My supposedly high quality Logitech mouse is one example (probably not buying anything from Logitech ever again, they're one of those brands that are coasting on their old credibility).

[hn_acc1]

If you can replace the battery, they can't sell you a new one.

[BobbyTables2]

Bingo!

[Pxtl]

A fun trick is that if you're sure the batteries are in series you can sometimes swap out a pair of AA batteries for a 3.7V 14500 Lithium rechargeable and a fake AA battery (just a wire in an AA-sized plastic shell). Drill a hole in the battery-cover of the device where the 14500's USB port is and now your device is plug-in rechargeable, assuming it can handle 3.7V instead of the normal ~3.1V that comes from a pair of AAs (which isn't a huge stretch). Worked for my old Logitech game controllers.

Downside is that you've got parts in your bin that are dangerous because they look like AA batteries but could cause damage or even fires if somebody put them into the wrong AA thing. Make sure to mark the batteries loudly. I've electrical-taped the pairs together to prevent this problem.

[LorenPechtel]

I have a headlamp for hiking with a slightly different take on this.

It will take 3x ordinary or rechargeable cells, or it will take it's Li-Ion pack that is the same size as the 3 cells side by side. Designed in from the start so there are no dangerous bits. Hiking headlamps are something where you do *not* want to be left with a dead battery!

[Zak]

A headlamp that can run on either AA or 14500 tends to be a better approach than this. Those proprietary batteries are usually pretty expensive compared to a 14500, and three AAAs as spares aren't nearly as convenient as one AA.

There are a handful of these on the market and they're not common in retail stores. I'm fond of the Skilhunt H150.

[Pxtl]

Follow up on this: from conversation elsewhere, another important safety tip is to get the 14500s with fancy electronics incl a USB port, because without that the battery will be a fire-hazard in this kind use.

[kube-system]

That's probably an advantage for people who know what they're doing, and more dangerous for people who don't.

[Zak]

That's true, but it's pretty common to stick a protection circuit on the end of a cell, making it similarly safe to the proprietary Li-ion batteries that power cameras and the like.

[kube-system]

It's also common to not put protection on the end of an 18650, which is probably a big reason we don't see more of these in user-serviceable devices. Even if you ship a device with a protected cell, the inherent implication of an 18650 socket is that someone is going to buy a cell from somewhere else and stick it in there. (and maybe throw a few in their junk drawer along with some loose change and rusty silverware)

[LorenPechtel]

There's a liability issue here.

You must have a charge controller in Li-Ion between each voltage point because overcharging a cell is asking for trouble.

Sealed battery pack, you can put a little controller in there with it. Loose cell, you either give up some capacity and add some cost by putting a controller in each cell, or you trust that the controller in whatever charges it is good. Bare cell, good charger, fine. Bare cell, iffy charger, you might get the blame when the cell goes up. Thus it's very hard to find good bare cells.

[makeitdouble]

There's a flurry of battery holders that accept 21700 cells, but the power delivery is just too weak IMHO.

From memory, the max output was about 20~30W for the bigger models [0]. For 2 cell types it gives 10W, so barely good enough to slowly charge a smartphone.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/PLCPDM/dp/B0DFPKXQZ1

[datadrivenangel]

You can get these for 18650s as well.

Most of them use rails though, so different cell chemistries are a bit of a risk over time.

[ryukafalz]

I agree, but specifically LFP cells rather then NMC. Less likely to get angry. (My laptop uses these and I appreciate it all the time.)

[Zak]

LFP capacity is terrible. LMFC is a recent development which closes that gap; it's still heavier than NMC or NCA, but that's a worthwhile tradeoff in many applications.

[p1mrx]

I have a couple devices (LDK portable game console, Sihuadon AM/FM radio) that take a Nokia BL-5C, but ~1000 mAh is fairly small.

[ramses0]

Same, but different. I have bought maybe hundreds of rechargeable AA/AAA batteries over the last ten years, and chased as exclusively as possible devices without built-in rechargeable batteries.

Anything with a built-in battery is nearly always e-waste within 3 years, while I've had AA/AAA devices that are 5-10 years old that are fine.

Pop the batteries out when in storage, never need to wait for it to recharge (just rotate in new batteries), use disposable batteries from the corner shop in an emergency.

[turnsout]

Exactly. I still use portable flash units (speed lights) that are now well over 20 years old, while a lot of the newer units have built-in batteries that will fail in just a few years. And it's an extreme example, but I still use my Game Boy DMG, which is a 36 year old device.

All electronic devices are eventually e-waste, but devices that use AA/AAA can last decades longer. I only buy something with a lithium ion battery when there is almost literally no alternative (essentially phone and laptop).

[consp]

If they have flat batteries you could be safe if they are LiFePO which are quite hard to light on fire. YMMV depending on the actual battery. Usually the come from batches of old phones which went out of production are put into these kind of things since they can be bought on the cheap.

If they put in a round cell I'd stay away. I usually replace the cell with one I know is good and check the circuit for protection. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen something with no over or undervolt protection whatsoever.

[joecool1029]

> if they are LiFePO

No phones use this chemistry. I have no idea what you're on about.

>Wouldn't be the first time I've seen something with no over or undervolt protection whatsoever.

Even the cheapest lithium ion charge controllers have overvolt protection by the nature of how they work. What can happen however is a controller could be specced to charge to 4.3V per cell and a 4.2V cell is instead installed. This is a problem.

[djmips]

>> if they are LiFePO > No phones use this chemistry. I have no idea what you're on about.

I thought we were discussing a power bank not a phone.

[joecool1029]

They made the claim manufacturers used batteries that were old stock for phones. Again, I don't know what they are on about.

[MengerSponge]

I've seen some teardowns and power supplies are another place where the no-name slop is spooky.

[GuB-42]

I am not sure that no-name batteries are that more dangerous. A common reason batteries catch fire is when things are too densely packed, causing shorts. A famous case is the Galaxy Note 7, which is Samsung, not Chinese tech.

No-name batteries are often way lower capacity than advertised, which means less stuff, and therefore less densely packed and less stuff to burn.

I am not saying that these batteries are safer, or that it is not a scam, but the fact that these batteries are lower capacity can compensate for the sketchy build. Power electronics is another story, so while the battery may be ok, the charging circuit may not.

[TiredOfLife]

> A common reason batteries catch fire is when things are too densely packed, causing shorts. A famous case is the Galaxy Note 7, which is Samsung, not Chinese tech.

Note 7 thing was a faulty velding line. And no x-ray quality checks.

[mook]

These days there's lots of news about no-name ebikes and battery-powered scooters catching on fire, so maybe it depends on how you get that battery?

[namibj]

That's mostly related to them being rather dumb across the connection to the charger, instead of having the charge controller integrated with the battery management system. Plus probably cheaper overall construction because a higher percentage is spent on just energy capacity from economy of scale at the pack level (more cells per pack: less overhead from other components when normalized per-cell). Doesn't help that they'd prefer to keep the grid voltage out of the metal framed vehicle, and there's economic incentives to regulate the charging voltage/current at the transformer directly without any intermediate voltage like USB.

Maybe using USB-PD signaling for the finely adjustable voltage modes (PPS/AVS) could help though, at least if USB-PD coding has reasonable range left in the protocol fields there to communicate the entire voltage and current range that such an e-vehicle charger would want. Though there's other readily suitable communication protocols to pick from if USB-PD isn't suitable.