[lvl155]

At what point are we going to say browsers with JS is outdated and painful? Every few months there’s some new framework. I think it stems from the fact that we refuse to change the browser. HTML was nice but all these solutions to make it modern are…ugly. And don’t get me started on JS. I just want an elegant solution that’s intuitive and built for modern applications.

[bnchrch]

I think your suffering from the same thing that makes 2014 feel like 5 years ago when its over a decade ago.

The framework landscape has remained relatively entrenched in React since 2016. Sure theres a few new ones time to time but nothings ever come close to unseating it in the same way it took over from Angular.

(Yes you could argue Nextjs but thats just react with a backend bolted to it)

[cosmic_cheese]

I’ve been saying for a while now that browsers need something closer to a proper UI toolkit, or at minimum “batteries included” primitives built in for ages now. It’d be a much-needed paving of a desire path that’s been so heavily trodden it’s become a canyon.

The WASM approach holds promise too and is interesting to me for opening up support for non-JS languages, but a built in UI toolkit would bring the advantage of not needing a compiler or toolchain (just like the traditional web) which can be advantageous and lowers the bar for entry.

[satvikpendem]

You might be interested in this: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1peUSMsvFGvqD5yKh3Gpr...

It's by the Flutter team lead talking about how with WASM we can redo the web stack by eschewing HTML, CSS, and JS entirely.

[xdfgh1112]

That is more or less how flutter works on the web, right?

[satvikpendem]

That is correct.

[1oooqooq]

"works".

name one thing using "flutter web".

Flutter is just the thing startups use until they can hire a dedicated IOS person and fork the "app" codebase.

[satvikpendem]

InvoiceNinja uses it, works pretty well for them.

[1oooqooq]

went as far as their login screen, doesn't look like it's flutterweb.

[satvikpendem]

https://demo.invoiceninja.com, it's Flutter web

[ChadNauseam]

Many web developers make applications that are expected to work on every platform, every screen size, load instantly for new users, sync user state between every device instantly, and work offline (in some cases). All this takes place in an execution environment that perfectly sandboxes it, allowing users to download and run any application without any fear of viruses. Yes, the stack is complicated, but it's a complicated problem. The fact that people are making libraries to make web development simpler... well, no platform other than the web has even attempted to achieve everything I've listed, so we don't really have a point of comparison.

[1oooqooq]

we've been saying it for ages. We even got everyone under the banner and came up with all sort of fixes and said "we will use transpilers till then", and javascript was supposed to change for the better.

But then microsoft took everything and ran with it. And now people believe typescript is good because their text editor lies to them.

[downrightmike]

Eventually they'll mature.