[Freak_NL]

Do you mean why vapes aren't allowed to be sold in exciting flavours in a lot of countries?

Because what happened there was that 'strawberry kiwi', 'banana ice', and 'miami mint', and whatever fruity flavour in a colourful package you can come up with, turned vaping from something adults did to quit smoking tobacco into the biggest hype amongst teenagers since fidget spinners. Only they get addicted to nicotine as a bonus, and switch to 'proper' tobacco in their senior years.

Even with a complete ban on those the damage is done, and all across the globe society is now dealing with a huge profitable underground Snapchat-enabled market geared solely at selling the equivalent of a pack-a-day habit in nicotine to kids. (The ban helps to gradually denormalise vaping again, so it is good to have in place.)

[whycome]

Vapes aren't just for adults to quit smoking tobacco. They're a nicotine-delivery system. It's a way to use a legal stimulant. The flavors would make it potentially more enjoyable.

I don't think vape kids are ever switching to tobacco - that doesn't fit the model that they want at all: its an electronic device that delivers a stimulant.

Why is alcohol something that's okay to market to kids? (The new supergirl is a drunk party girl). Isn't alcohol much more harmful?

[Freak_NL]

> Why is alcohol something that's okay to market to kids?

It's not in many places. Where is it OK? There is a reason abstinence from alcohol is getting normalised for under 18s.

> I don't think vape kids are ever switching to tobacco […]

Demographic research polling suggests otherwise. Besides, it is gradually becoming more apparent that vaping is very much not a healthy thing to do¹.

1: Just one example of reporting on this issue: https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/sep/08/vapi...

[skybrian]

Interesting, what evidence is there that people switch from e-cigarettes to tobacco? I hadn’t heard of that before.

[silverquiet]

Every single person I've known who switched from tobacco to e-cigarettes has switched back to tobacco. They all say it's better for one reason or another.

[UncleEntity]

You don't know me but...

I switched to vaping, IDK, 10 or so years ago from an off and (mostly) on cigarette habit and haven't looked back. There was a point where I was spending more on 'cheap' Chinese vape gear than I was on cigarettes but, other than that, no regrets.

And, yes, I'm a middle-aged adult who likes to vape flavors a well.

Perhaps the only downside, if you can even call it that, is I never tried to quit vaping as I enjoy it and it (probably) won't kill me before the lingering effects of a couple decades of smoking, environmental hazards of invading Iraq twice, the skin cancer and whatever else comes up due to my general lack of concern over living a healthy lifestyle.

[justinrubek]

And every person I know that vapes did so to quit tobacco and hasn't gone back. Unfortunately, I don't know anywhere near enough people to have significant conclusions based on that.

[silverquiet]

Certainly my observations are pure anecdote, and only really a handful of people; all of whom started smoking before vaping was available. That said, a cigarette is a pretty impressive way of delivering nicotine, which is why they are so addictive. It's not hard to imagine that someone who's become addicted to nicotine via vape would then try other delivery methods and find them more satisfying.

That said, I do think that vapes as a replacement for an existing tobacco habit is a nice idea and it makes sense that it would be much safer. The issue is just that I have not known people to stick with them.

[meepmorp]

Former smokers switching back is one thing, but how often do people start out with vaping and then move to smoking tobacco?

[whycome]

That's switching 'back'. People that want vapes/ecigarettes want them for specific reasons and smoked tobacco has way too many other problems.

[Freak_NL]

In the Netherlands the scientific Trimbos Institute has been reporting this based on their regular demographic research polls, but health care professionals are drawing this conclusion too. Near the end of high school vaping is something the kids do. To be really cool, you gotta smoke — and as this group of unfortunate kids is already addicted to nicotine…

[funkyfourier]

As a former smoker and vaper for 12 years this is unfathomable to me. Vaping is just better in every way. It takes some getting used to when coming straight from cigarettes, but after that the flavor of tobacco is just pure stench when compared to vanilla, strawberries etc.

[Freak_NL]

That's the problem with a not yet fully developed prefrontal cortex; cool now is way more important than healthy later.

[whycome]

You're saying they leave high school and because they vaped they will switch to smoked tobacco?

[Freak_NL]

No, what is reported is that older high school kids who vape take up smoking tobacco because vaping is perceived as childish by that time.

This is from a Dutch newspaper article interviewing one of the researchers from the Trimbos Institute:

> De overstap naar sigaretten met tabak is vervolgens snel gemaakt, zegt Croes. „We horen ook dat de jonkies op het schoolplein vapen, maar dat in de bovenbouw niet meer stoer vinden. Dan gaan ze roken, wat in hun ogen nu weer een positief imago heeft gekregen.” Zo vormen e-sigaretten volgens haar een „enorme tegenkracht” voor campagnes die jongeren van roken moeten weerhouden.¹

(Tobacco) smoking is cool again. The young kids vape, so to be really cool and adult…

1: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/10/01/beginnen-met-een-sigare...

[stronglikedan]

nobody switches to proper tobacco, only from it. nice try tho

[cwmoore]

Central planning saviors to the rescue, keeping everyone safe from themselves or else in jail or public supervision. So no, it is not "good to have in place".