[nonvibecoding]

Lowering the voting age to 16 makes sense on paper. Many people at that age work, pay taxes, and take on real responsibilities. But let’s be honest, parties don’t push changes like this unless they believe it gives them an electoral edge

[graemep]

They are not legally adults.

* They are restricted in what jobs they do, and are supposed to be either in education or doing apprenticeships or similar

* They cannot drive until they are 17

* They cannot purchase alcohol, knives and many other things

* They cannot get married

* They cannot get tattoos

Its very much that they think it will favour them. I think it might very well not do so - while they will net vote for Labour its not by a huge margin and its changing. I wonder whether the government are overly influenced by the huge margin they enjoy with privileged people in that age group - i.e. the ones they meet.

[musicale]

To me at least, the argument that young people face great restrictions (even if many of those restrictions might be intended for their benefit) doesn't justify not giving them a voice, or a seat at the table.

"So if democracy is so great, and voting rights are so important, why don't you let us vote on anything that matters to us?"

"So taxation without representation... that's like me, right?"

"So if universal suffrage is important, are people like me included in the universe?"

"So we can (in the UK) potentially join the army or navy at 16, and possibly die in dangerous training or even fighting in a war, but we don't get to vote?"

[hn_throw2025]

> Let's see... 16 year olds in the UK can potentially join the army or navy (and perhaps die fighting in a war)

No combat until 18.

[musicale]

s/fighting in a war/in an attack by militants/

[hn_throw2025]

Under-18s in the UK military, while able to enlist with parental consent from age 16, are not legally permitted to be deployed to combat operations outside the UK or where there is a risk of exposure to hostilities.

[seydor]

pensioners are legally adults but , they don't work thus don't pay taxes, they dont drive some of them, and getting tattoos is kinda weird for them. why do they get to vote

[elthran]

UK pensions are subject to income tax, if you're receiving more than the annual tax free allowance.

[octo888]

That's half the story - there was tax relief paying in, and many view paying tax on your pension as deferred tax

[mbesto]

In most jurisdictions (especially at a national level) the changes that elected officials enact usually don't affect the population for at least another 12-16 months after voters cast their ballots.

[nancyminusone]

If they have jobs, they pay taxes, right?

[graemep]

Depends on how much income they get.

Under 16s also pay income taxes in they have income. They also pay various other taxes such as VAT. Non-citizens pay taxes but do not get to vote.

The general expectation is that they should be in full time education or training until they are 18.

All that makes "a minority of people in this age group pay taxes" a very weak argument for giving all of them the vote.

[dijit]

There's no rule that says that, in fact the rules in the UK are that you can pay people below minimum wage if they're under a certain age.

I think there are also some tax incentives that are designed to make employers more friendly to the idea of hiring a young workforce - all to offset the "cost" of training people, but of course this is just used by mega-corps to have a perpetual stream of extremely cheap labour for frontline staff. (Argos, McDonalds).

So it's possible that not only do they not pay tax, that also their employment is partially subsidised by tax.

[roryirvine]

Even if below the income tax threshold, they might still be above the Class 1 NICs threshold (which is £250 or thereabouts).

But no matter how low their earnings, all employees must be registered for PAYE from age 16 onwards and will receive an annual P60, as well as a P45 when they leave.

[tsimionescu]

That is irrelevant. If a 5-year old wins some competition, they will pay taxes on that money. That doesn't mean we should give 5-year olds the vote, does it? Also, plenty of non-tax related laws apply to children - why should they not get to vote on Education or Healthcare, for example?

Also, while some 16-year olds work and pay taxes, the majority do not. So a blanket right to vote is not justified even by this strange criterion.

[fny]

- Are the merits of the change not more important?

- Couldn't you argue parties don't promote changes like this to protect their interests too?

[octo888]

> Many people at that age work, pay taxes

Not in the UK, particularly England. With the requirement to remain in education/do an apprenticeship/perform a mixture of work and part time education (in England), combined with our the personal allowance, very very few 16-18 year olds pay any tax or national insurance.

According to ChatGPT, data from the ONS in 2021 shows the average weekly earnings for 16-17 year olds was about £160, well below the personal allowance and NI thresholds

[drcongo]

I think you're right in that Labour believe this, but that Labour are spectacularly wrong about it and have just signed their own death warrant. Young people want hope, and they definitely don't feel like Blue Labour could give that to them.