[peter_vukovic]

> That's not a necessary part of civilization, it's just the way we're doing it currently.

All civilizations including ours have been doing it this way, so you can argue it is a part of the civilization. It’s a comforting fiction that humanity can fundamentally change its character, but the history proves otherwise.

[franga2000]

The knowledge that our growth harms the environment and will end up destroying the planet and us along with it has not been front and center in those civilisations, so it's not a fair comparison.

[peter_vukovic]

I hope you are right. I am not seeing any evidence that you are, but I still hope you are.