[turtlebits]

You should always use virtual envs. They're a single directory, how are they an abyss? Pip now complains if you try to install a package system wide.

[unethical_ban]

For shadow IT, anything that requires "installation" vs. being in the base system or being added as a file to a project is an inconvenience.

It's why I like using Bottle for small Python frontends: download the file and import.

(I'm ranting based on personal experiences with IT in the past. Yes in general virtualenv is the baseline)

[ActorNightly]

Compile python to executable is always an option.

[shakna]

If you're dealing with a managed system, chances are, compilers are banned. You'll have to be unsafe and work outside the constrained environment - potentially violating policies, contracts, regulations and laws.

[nomel]

> You should always use virtual envs.

If you're not using dependencies, and are writing 3.x code, there's very little justification.

[dapperdrake]

Not using dependencies is rather niche. Most people come to Python because they want to use pre-existing libraries.

[frollogaston]

I don't have to deal with this in JS or I think in other stuff like Golang. I give someone a package.json with versions of everything. npm install always sets deps up locally, but doesn't need to copy the entire NodeJS runtime.

[deathanatos]

… node_modules is your venv.

If we use uv from TFA, like the commands are nearly 1:1:

  npm install     <=> uv sync
  npm install foo <=> uv add foo

> It doesn't have to also store a local copy of NodeJS

… which Node devs do have a thing for, too, called nvm, written in bash.

[frollogaston]

The difference is it's default, it always works the same everywhere, it actually writes down the deps, and I don't have to manually switch between them (or set up fancy bashrc triggers) like venvs.

[deathanatos]

> it's default

This point is true; the ecosystem simply can't change overnight. uv is getting there, I hope.

> it always works the same everywhere

`uv` works the same, everywhere?

> it actually writes down the deps

`uv add` does that, too.

> I don't have to manually switch between them (or set up fancy bashrc triggers) like venvs.

You don't have to do that with `uv`, either?

[frollogaston]

Hope they make uv default then. It's nice, but I have to separately create a project with it, and regular python commands don't work with it, both of which go back to it not being default. But even that won't fix all the old projects.

[degamad]

node is not the default in js projects either, it's just the currently most popular manager. Old JS projects are their own bundle of fun.