[seanmcdirmid]

Having kids when you are young and financially not established is just irresponsible, but particularly female bodies don’t do well having kids older when you are established enough to do so responsibly. I’m having this problem right now with my spouse (we have a kid, but are thinking about another), it’s just super hard to get pregnant without medical help.

[sebmellen]

Why? Can you defend this for me? I'm genuinely asking. Why is it irresponsible to have a child when you're young and financially not established? Why is it any more irresponsible to do that than to have children at a geriatric age?

Children are resilient, and so are parents.

In my opinion, this idea that you have to have everything perfectly set up in life before you can contemplate having a child is ridiculous.

[EmptySocks]

Reminds me of that scene from idiocracy about the genius couple that wanted kids but kept pushing it off until everything was “perfect”. Then they were too old and resented each other then died childless.

[jalapenos]

Basically the westerner's (narcissist's) dream

[tenebrisalietum]

If you have a child, but don't have a house, you'll probably stay with your parents. They probably would rather you have your own house so they can have privacy and such.

A lot of the "multiple generations of families under one roof" type thinking are only practical if you have a large property, which was more common and much cheaper before the industrial revolution, tract housing, high rise apartments, and $2000/mo. rent for 500 square feet. Even if you think it's OK for 3 generations and 20 children to live in a 500 square foot apartment, most others don't want that.

When you have people with more money than they could possibly spend in their entire lives who wouldn't have to work a day in their life if they didn't want to, telling you that people need to start having babies and oh, also they need to work 80 hours a week and "sacrifice" to pay for them as well, lol no thanks.

[sebmellen]

I had my first child at 24 on a shoestring budget in a 700 sq. ft. apartment and it has been completely manageable. Children are way less expensive than you might think (definitely cheaper than an adult) and if you’re creative you can find good quality, full-time daycare or childcare for $10-15k/yr.

Does this add extra work? Oh yes, absolutely it does. But while having children means you sacrifice certain things, they are an incredible gift and more than make up for the trouble they cause.

It’s appalling to me how heavily we gatekeep parenthood and building a family. There is an unbroken evolutionary thread of more than 4 billion years from the very first organism to you. Your ancestors all managed to do it and they were no smarter, more gifted, or more affluent than you are. Chances are they were younger than you when they started and in a far more perilous situation to boot.

[holy_eggplants]

I think one problem is that it's difficult to share with non-parents that the sacrifice is worth it. It's easier to understand the pain of losing opportunities, losing freedom, losing hobbies, losing sleep, or downsizing living space.

How do you explain that you miss your newborn so much, that when the baby is asleep all you do is look through pictures of him/her? i almost cried the first time my toddler ran up to me and gave me a hug. i cried when i picked him up after the first day of daycare and he said "i missed you" - i didn't even know he knew that phrase!

My (immigrant) parents never explained to me how awesome it is to be a parent. Also they are a 100 times more affectionate as grandparents than as parents. I hope to teach my son that being a parent is the best luckiest blessed thing ever.

[sebmellen]

You completely nailed it. I hope to teach my children the same. And thank you for your beautiful comment.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> and if you’re creative you can find good quality, full-time daycare or childcare for $10-15k/yr.

For people still making only the mid 5-figures, that's a significant chunk of money.

[sebmellen]

That’s completely true. But you can still be creative.

I know a couple who both earn in that range and work around each other’s schedules to do it and take care of their two kids at the same time. Yes it’s a lot to juggle, but it is absolutely worth it.

[seanmcdirmid]

> full-time daycare or childcare for $10-15k/yr.

That's what it cost 5-10 years ago. Today, it depends on the city, but in the Seattle area you are looking at at least $20k/yr.

[sebmellen]

True, I may be biased since I’m in Texas!

[seanmcdirmid]

> Why is it irresponsible to have a child when you're young and financially not established?

Just imagine being the kid in that situation. Your parents are still almost kids themselves, they are working min wage jobs and had to drop out of college. Seriously, this isn't rocket science: we are having kids older because growing up in a financial stable household is just good for kids. If you have a trust fund or are somehow have enough time and money to have kids at 22, then go ahead and have kids. Just most of us didn't.

> Why is it any more irresponsible to do that than to have children at a geriatric age?

You totally ignored the "financially not established" of my statement.

> In my opinion, this idea that you have to have everything perfectly set up in life before you can contemplate having a child is ridiculous.

Did you just make a straw man? Because I didn't state an "idea that you have to have everything perfectly set up in life".

[sebmellen]

Had first kid at 24 on a shoestring budget in a small apartment with very minimal family support and we handled it. Kids are not that hard or expensive!

[seanmcdirmid]

I’m actually glad it worked out for you. As a previously neglected kid growing up, I wasn’t willing to do the same and had a kid later (and now trying for #2).

[evilsetg]

Maybe we as a society should decide that having children is fine when you don't have a stable career yet and finance it as such. The contradiction that our most fertile years are also the most unstable is something society could and should balance.

EDIT: typo

[seanmcdirmid]

Definitely, but having children when you aren't stable yourself and society isn't going to help out much could wind up in disaster. "Let's play life on hard/hell mode" doesn't really sound appealing to me.

There are things we could do as a society to make this easier: socialized child care (like we do with school) for one thing. Better welfare, making it easier to go to college when you have kids, etc...

But we aren't really doing those, most definitely not doing those in the states, and even in other western countries with better social safety nets. If you want society to have more kids, maybe we have to socialize child rearing more than we do today?

[MagicMoonlight]

Or alternatively, it’s a great idea because your parents can then help raise them and you can then start a career without worrying about having babies. Imagine being 25, already having your kids, and you never need to go on leave.

[redeeman]

are you saying that everyone in poor countries barely making it by are being "just irresponsible" when they decide they want to have kids?

this seems very elitist, possibly racist, and certainly could indicate that your view might be wrong, given the literal billions chosing to do this.

[dyauspitr]

There are also huge probability multipliers in congenital and cognitive problems with late pregnancies.

[squigz]

Don't the difficulties in pregnancy related to age tend to come up around 40 or older?

I don't think the choices need to be "have children at 19 years old" or "have children at 40" - surely having kids at 30-35 is still physically fine and gives you some time to become more financially secure?

[pseudocomposer]

If you know anything about dating and relationships, that’s an extremely narrow window. More so if you want 2-3 kids.