[socceroos]

I find the repeated comments of how much parenting 'sucks' and how much childbearing 'sucks' to be distasteful.

It has been the single most incredible experience I've had (5 times over).

I feel like, primarily, the reason why our society isn't having children is because of a growing selfishness and entitlement; which happens to be the very thing that Rome was suffering from when their society was collapsing too.

No, I'm not rich and I'm not old. But I was brought up in a family that cherished loved ones and family. Love was agape, not eros.

[squigz]

People are choosing not to have kids so they can live their own lives, or because they don't want to bring more children into this crazy world, or any number of various other perfectly legitimate reasons, such as economic worries.

While I agree this might indicate a culture of "selfishness," I have to disagree that it's a bad thing. It seems to me a good thing that people can choose whether or not to have kids, as opposed to being forced into it because lack of education or access to healthcare. It seems to me that society has to adjust to this, not individuals.

[arp242]

People are sharing their own views and outlooks. There is nothing "distasteful" about that, nor are these people selfish and entitled. Bizarre comment.

[budududuroiu]

The incentives are not there, for example, you’re financially invested in raising 5 kids that will pay my pension in the future. By not having said kids, I get all the economic benefit of not having to spend money raising kids, while getting my pension paid (maybe)

[KolibriFly]

Parenting can be deeply meaningful and fulfilling, and your experience is a powerful reminder of that. But I'd be cautious about chalking up declining birth rates to selfishness. People today are navigating a very different world

[thinkingemote]

I think the issue is that the very different world is different because it's about the self and the individual. I am the most important thing. Human rights are about the person. My body. I can still be selfish and unselfish in my consumer choices. I can be unselfish and share my cake with you but I still get to eat my cake. What choices I make define who I am. The identities I freely adopt make me whom I am. The rewards of life impact me first.

It used to be about sacrifice and responsibilities. It's about giving up on choice. It's about not having cake. Our grandparents were defined by their responsibilities not their choices. Their identity was assigned to them as parent, it wasn't something they made themselves. It's horrific to think about for many (including me). How could I advocate for less of me?

A fear of the future of the world is about my future identity. Indeed we fear giving up our identity. We even want to die on our own terms. Many comments here talk about having babies as a kind of economic consumer choice and I imagine some parents do have children as a luxury good. "If only it was cheaper." It's still a choice of the self.

Our world is different in that it's hard to think about and talk of a world where the self is less important than the other and yet being a parent is usually about putting the child before themselves. Ironically therefore, babies are the best way to talk about not living in a selfish world!

[seatac76]

Here in the US. I think for the young population there is a genuine affordability crisis, coupled with health insurance being so expensive it is a genuine blocker for a lot of people.

[broost3r]

some of the younger people i work with also mention climate change and global instability, amongst other things. they don’t want to bring kids into this world as it exists today.

[pishpash]

It's Malthusian scarcity, expressed through market-clearing prices. It's like some alpha baboon hordes all the food so nobody else is going to reproduce.

[throaway198764]

Rome was a slave state, its collapse had nothing to do with selfishness and entitlement. That’s what got them their empire in the th3 first place!

[rdm_blackhole]

> I find the repeated comments of how much parenting 'sucks' and how much childbearing 'sucks' to be distasteful.

Shouldn't people who think that parenting is not a glamorous job be allowed to express their thoughts on this subject?

> It has been the single most incredible experience I've had (5 times over).

So other people's feelings and experiences are according to you distasteful but yours should be accepted as some sort of universal truth?

You had a great experience bringing kids into this world, that's nice but that doesn't mean that everyone should be willing to go through the same things you did.

[socceroos]

I'm certainly not denying them their right to express their thoughts; I'm not sure where you've got that notion from.

Are you suggesting I should not have the right to express my thoughts about their thoughts?

[twelvefeet]

We all have the right to express our thoughts. We also have the right to keep some thoughts to ourselves. Maybe not every opinion needs to be shared, hm?

[twelvedogs]

Having kids you don't want is more of a moral failing than choosing not to have kids because you don't want them

[sandy_coyote]

I don't think parenting sucks.

But my parents sucked. And they thought parenting sucks, but they had kids anyway. I don't want to continue the cycle. My wife feels the same way. We're pretty happy, healthy, married for 11 years; we just don't want kids.