[delusional]

Republicans would argue they are already dabbling in "criminal enterprise" by having trouble with ICE. You might then argue that "but they haven't been convicted" which is true, but you also know the republicans don't agree with that either.

[_petronius]

Being undocumented is a civil offense, not a criminal one. The distinction is relevant, and important.

[caseysoftware]

US Code appears to disagree:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

(a)Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

Ref: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

[klipt]

Visa application forms are really long and complicated and it's easy to make a mistake somewhere. With some motivated investigation and sufficiently broad interpretation I expect you could accuse most foreign visitors of "misrepresentation and concealment of facts"

[somanyphotons]

This is also exactly why the de-naturalization is such a scary threat, it's essentially impossible to be 100% truthful given how all the questions are worded on application forms.

[dataflow]

> concealment of a material fact

For what it's worth, when denaturalization came up in the first Trump presidency, SCOTUS threw them out of court because they deemed the word "material" as... very material. Though who knows if they'll change their tune this time.

[BobaFloutist]

What do you mean, you don't think it's perfectly reasonable to ask

Have you EVER been a member of, involved in, or in any way associated with any organization, association, fund, foundation, party, club, society, or similar group in the United States or in any other location in the world?

And then demand dates, locations, roles, etc for each and every time you have?

[nucleardog]

Not going to dig too far to try and find updated numbers, but as of 2014 about 2/3 of people who had entered the country illegally that year were people that overstayed their visa and the ratio had been on an upward trend for quite a while.

I'm sure you could torture that into applying to that situation, but at least on a very plain reading it doesn't sound like it applies generally to those people.

[dataflow]

> 2/3 of people who had entered the country illegally that year were people that overstayed their visa

That doesn't make sense. If you overstayed the visa then you (probably?) entered legally, not illegally. Did you mean something else?

[bombcar]

I guess they mean “in the country illegally” but I presume you could also argue that if they entered intending to overstay the visa, they entered illegally.

[nucleardog]

Yeah something like that. Of the people who entered the country that year and who were now in the country illegally, 2/3 had entered on a valid visa.

Was trying to figure out a succinct way to say that and instead just butchered it. Words are hard.

[TimorousBestie]

8 USC 1325 and 1326 represent a fraction of immigration cases, mostly Mexican or South American smuggling. There are many other categories of undocumented person.

[caseysoftware]

What are the categories you're thinking of and what % fit into each?

[criddell]

Would that apply to dreamers (people who were brought into the US by their parents when they were minors)?

[klipt]

Dreamers are not protected by congressional law, they're protected by an Obama executive order (DACA). Which means that protection could be removed by Trump at the stroke of a pen. Dreamers really entirely on the moral compass of Trump...

[antonymoose]

Depending on the circumstances, the mood of a Federal agent, and of a prosecutor it could be charged either civilly or criminally. The sibling comment explains this better than I could.

Stepping past the direct offense of being here, one must ask how are they supporting themselves financially? Assuming they are workers, they’re either not paying taxes (a crime) or stealing the identity of a citizen in order to fool an employer. Now they are at least paying taxes, but they’ve victimized a lawful resident or Citizen. This is far from a victimless crime, it took my mother two years to fully clear her name after this occurred to her identity. The IRS and credit agencies are not very understanding.

[FuriouslyAdrift]

Improper entry is a criminal offense (crossing the border illegally, etc.)... unlawful presence (overstaying a visa, etc.) is a civil offense.

[dataflow]

You should clarify what you mean by undocumented. "Oops I lost my passport somewhere" is very different from "I lack documentation because I crossed the border illegally."

[mindslight]

Republicans will argue whatever orange Kim Jong Un and mass media tell them to this week, but this doesn't mean any of those arguments are logically sensible or connected to reality. As a libertarian I steelmanned Republican points for far too long, but at this point they're completely off the rails. All that remains is a fascist anti-American juche cult, and the main question is what are we going to do about it.