[genman]

Why not apply scientific method to Traditional Chinese Medicine and use double blinded placebo controlled trials to test its validity? In the end also modern medicine is using exactly this method and can treat substances using the black box method.

[FooBarWidget]

They are doing that — in China, in Chinese papers. Not everything has been researched yet, but there's quite a lot of active research going on.

[0xDEAFBEAD]

This is already being done and in many cases the RCTs show that the TCM treatments are effective.

[soco]

There's a whole article about exactly this and it can be accessed by clicking the title of this page. And guess what it's saying.

[0xDEAFBEAD]

Do you know what "RCT" stands for?

[cdf]

The fundamental problem is TCM acknowledges individual differences that cannot be measured or even dont exist in the eyes of modern medicine, eg identical twins with different diets will have different responses to the same treatment, so going double blind will mean the results will be inconsistent.

[IAmBroom]

Ah, the old "if you try to test for results, the results won't show up" problem.

Ghosts and ESP suffer from the same issue.

[BigGreenJorts]

This is why sample size is important tho. With a large enough sample size, you can ignore differences in individuals bc the trend of the control will be smaller than the experiment (or not)

[cdf]

That's the fundamental problem right there.

You have no problem accepting eg a treatment can only work on a man, but not on a woman. But modern medicine have no concept of a yin body type and a yang body type, which may or may not be male and female.

The whole idea of TCM is balance, and it varies with the individual, unlike modern medicine, where there is a right and wrong answer to everything. Bacteria bad, antibiotic good. Fever bad, paracetamol good.

Take fecal transplants for example. I dont think it is well understood how it works or it will be a pill by now, and is a last resort when all else fails. And it doesnt involve killing all the bacteria, but restoring balance to the bacterial ecosystem.

[genman]

Is this yin, yang somehow measurable? If not then there is a fundamental problem.

Also Western medicine is very well aware of side effects, it's actually one of the fundamental concepts. For example it knows that taking Paracetamol is good against pain, but increases risk to the liver, especially when taken with alcohol. It's also very well aware of causes of fever and doesn't recommend lowering it for the sake of it, only from certain dangerous level. It also knows that taking antibiotics affects gut bacteria, so it's often recommended to take also probiotics. It knows that some medicine could affect women differently, especially when they are pregnant or are breast feeding. The list goes on, it's never black and white.

[cdf]

Most religions have the concept of ritual cleanliness for thousands of years, esp touching dead bodies make them unclean and yet at some point, doctors have to be reminded to wash their hands after performing autopsy.

How did we get there? Because "modern science" rejects superstitious beliefs and ritual cleanliness is superstition. Right?

I chose antibiotics and paracetamol as examples precisely because it is well understood _now_ . You go back 50 years before we understand gut bacteria or the difference between male and female bodies and suggest the same, the then modern medicine will laugh at you and call you a witch doctor.

[genman]

What you claim is simply wrong. The problem was not that the doctors ignored religious superstition, but the Christian customs had been altered over the time and touching the dead was actually act of compassion - there were no impurity laws in late Christianity like it was in Judaism.

[adgjlsfhk1]

you could design a study to do any of this. it isn't done because a proof of failure kills sales more than a lack of proof.