[lerno]

You can certainly do it with RAII. However, what if a language lacks RAII because it prioritizes explicit code execution? Or simply want to retain simple C semantics?

Because that is the context. It is the constraint that C3, C, Odin, Zig etc maintains, where RAII is out of the question.

[imtringued]

If you want RAII to be explicit, then show an error if you fail to call the destructor. That's it.

[lerno]

Ok then I understand what you mean (I couldn't respond directly to your answer, maybe there is a limit to nesting in HN?).

Let me respond in some more detail then to at least answer why C3 doesn't have RAII: it tries to the follow that data is inert. That is – data doesn't have behaviour in itself, but is acted on by functions. (Even though C3 has methods, they are more a namespacing detail allowed to create methods that derive data from the value, or mutate it. They are not intended as organizational units)

To simplify what the goal is: data should be possible to create or destroy in bulk, without executing code for each individual element. If you create 10000 objects in a single allocation it should be as cheap to free (or create) as a single object.

We can imagine things built into the type system, but then we will need these unsafe constructs where a type is converted from its "unsafe" creation to its "managed" type.

I did look at various cheap ways of doing this through the type system, but it stopped resembling C and seemed to put the focus on resource management rather than the problem at hand.

So that is why it's closer to C than Rust.

[lerno]

You lost me there I'm afraid.

[ameliaquining]

The idea is, you could have a language like Rust, but with linear rather than affine types. Such a language would have RAII-like idioms, but no implicit destructors; instead, it'd be a compile-time error to have a non-Copy local variable whose value is not always moved out of it before its scope ends (i.e., to write code that in Rust could include an implicit destructor call). So you would have explicit deallocation functions like in C, but unlike in C you could not have resource leaks from forgetting to call them, because the compiler would not let you.

To the extent that you subscribe to a principle like "invisible function calls are never okay", this solves that without undermining Rust's safety story more broadly. I have no idea whether proponents of "better C" type languages have this as their core rationale; I personally don't see the appeal of that flavor of language design.

[bmacho]

Verdagon has this linear types/higher-RAII article: https://verdagon.dev/blog/higher-raii-7drl

It is about types that can't be copied and can't go out of scope, and the only way to destroy them is to call one of their destructors. This is compile time checkable.

In theory they can solve a lot of problems easily, mainly resource management. Also it generalizes C++'s RAII, and similar to Rust's ownership.

In practice they haven't got support in any mainstream programming language yet.