[dlikhten]

Android FTW. I know this pops up constantly, but this is EXACTLY the reason I advocate for android. This sort of shit does not fly there. Apple has the ability to censor which even the government can't and worse is that it's fully legal.

I really wish people would take these stories as a sign that we need to focus on the android market.

FWIW: I am not advocating for the baby & bathwater argument. I think we must focus on android because it will put market pressure on apple to have a more fair/just approval process.

[stephengillie]

Even if both Google's and Amazon's app stores reject an app, there are still other markets. And you can just download APKs from websites/ftp/etc and install them to your android, no market required.

[nivla]

That is until all the three (Apple, Google and Microsoft) decides to only allow installs from the maketplace, you know for "security" reasons. The problem is if one company gets away with it, others follow suit.

[adambyrtek]

I don't get your logic. Apple pretty much got away with it, Microsoft wasn't really in this space at that time, and still Google didn't follow.

[untog]

I doubt that very much- Android has the perfect middle ground right now. Only installs from approved sources, but has a checkbox in the settings that basically allows you to say "I know what I'm doing, let me do whatever I want". I doubt they'll change that.

[stephengillie]

If Google decides to only allow installs from their market, someone will just fork android and change that.

[philwelch]

And how will that fork get on any phones for customers to use? "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here.

[chimeracoder]

> "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here.

Well, it's not feasible as long as bootloaders remain encrypted/non-unlockable. That's the problem with restricting the software that can run on hardware after the user has purchased the hardware and owns it.

[fpgeek]

People will just buy different Android phones from someone else.

We've already been through this. AT&T (uniquely among US carriers, I believe) blocked non-Market applications on all of their devices. The success of the Amazon Appstore forced them to change that policy.

[mcpherrinm]

Saying "the success" was what caused it isn't really accurate, though.

If it hadn't been for a large, US corporation lobbying AT&T to allow their product on the handsets, would it have gone through?

A future where AT&T allows the Amazon and Google app stores only is still one that could happen.

[fulafel]

Only a part of Android is open source.

[veidr]

It's not a very effective defense of Apple to say, "Yeah, Google's phones and tablets don't currently have the same central, fundamental limitation that all Apple's iOS devices do, but someday they probably will."

[cheald]

How do you propose enforcing that on an open-source operating system?

[nivla]

The same way chromium has become obsolete with chrome becoming less and less open-source. The same goes with MySQL. In case of android, most consumers will deal with what the manufacturers decides to put on their phones and less than 1% will resort to installing another O/S. Keep in mind even with Android you are forced to register a Google account. What if you din't want to use Google or worst case, they ban you from their network?

The point is, just because something is open-source now doesn't mean it will remain that way in the future.

[nivla]

What is with the downvotes and no comment? I would love to hear your side of the argument too.

[orangecat]

It was a combination of FUD and objective falsehood. You presented no evidence that Google intends to close off Android source, and Android doesn't force users to create or use a Google account.

[kcbanner]

From day one you could always install any .apk you wanted, I don't see that changing.

[fpgeek]

Not really. The competition between Amazon and Google (and other app stores overseas) has made selling an Android device tied to a single app store untenable. For example, the volume of customer complaints about the Amazon Appstore even forced AT&T to give up on blocking non-Market applications.

[enraged_camel]

While this is true, security is a massive concern. Just look at how many malicious apps were in the Android store just last year, vs. in the Apple store.

[MrMember]

Maybe I'm being harsh, but if someone downloads a clearly sketchy looking app (DOWNLOAD FREE MP3S) I have no sympathy for them when it ends up being malicious.

Just like I wouldn't pick up a candy bar off the street and eat it, I wouldn't download a disreputable looking app. Common sense.

[tripzilch]

> Maybe I'm being harsh, but if someone downloads a clearly sketchy looking app (DOWNLOAD FREE MP3S) I have no sympathy for them when it ends up being malicious.

Yes you're being harsh. Kids use smartphones. And while some of them are really the clever "digital natives" we were promised, a lot of them also are not.

Similar reasoning goes for my mother (62) who is very good with computers compared to others of her generation, indeed smart enough to not trust "DOWNLOAD FREE MP3s!", but still if she were to be tricked by something that might seem real obvious to us, there will be loads of sympathy. (And also a lot of fist-shaking at the unknown malware pusher that got my mom)

Regardless, I wouldn't recommend them iOS. It's a good learning experience even if you get burned and keeps you in a feeling of control and responsibility and freedom.

Maybe my grandmother. There's some bitter irony in the term "walled garden" there, though.

[Steko]

Blame the user straw man. I mean did you see how he was dressed, practically asking for it.

[cageface]

I'd rather live in a world where grownups are allowed to make their own choices than in one where daddy decides what's best for everyone.

[enraged_camel]

As long as the full ramifications of said decisions are clear, sure, allow people to make their own. But it's not possible to know at a glance what Android app is malicious and which is not. Even an application that looks legitimate and works legitimately may steal your data behind the curtain without you knowing, which is what usually happens anyway. This is why an approval process for the app store is good. It's true that Apple's is a bit draconian, but that's because they care about protecting their users. I'm okay with this even if that protection borders on sheltering.

[orangecat]

So would you agree that Mountain Lion's Gatekeeper is insufficient, and that Apple should lock down Macs in the same way? If not, what's the difference?

It's true that Apple's is a bit draconian, but that's because they care about protecting their users.

I hear the TSA's marketing department is hiring.

[cageface]

I support Apple's right to offer you that choice as long as they're not using a broken patent system to take away my choice.

[biafra]

If it looks legitimately and works legitimately it will pass the App store review and steal your data on iOS too. This already happened. And it is impossible for the App store reviewers to find all apps that do this. Even if they had the source code they would still need very skilled people to find malicious apps if someone tried to hide the maliciousness. This problem will never be solved. Even with a review process.

[Jamiecon]

Weird that I agree with all three parents at once (no pun intended).

Grownups can make their own life choices to some extent, but society everywhere forbids certain behaviours and activities.

An OS with a software distribution platform that tries to prevent the average user from making mistakes, and that attempts to prevent malicious activity while avoiding being overly restrictive seems a good model.

Not a bad shout for government as well.

App store == France, Marketplace == UK, Play == US?

Or something like that.

[Steko]

I'd love to live in a world where winning arguments are met with seeing your enemies driven before you and the lamentation of the womenfolk instead of moving goalposts but here we are.

"grownups are allowed to make their own choices"

Apple didn't force anyone to buy an iphone. It's always been a curated app market. Grownups should take responsibility for their decisions. If you want a wild west app market you should not buy iOS products and that has always been the case.

[fpgeek]

> Apple didn't force anyone to buy an iphone.

After Apple has sued the top three Android OEMs in the US (Samsung, HTC and Motorola) and more competitors overseas that statement rings more than a little hollow.

[nutjob123]

How many malicious apps were in the Android store? A few? A dozen? Thats a pretty good ratio out of the hundreds of thousands available.

[ralfd]

On a similar line of argument: "How many blocked apps were in the App Store? A few? A dozen? Thats a pretty good ratio out of the hundreds of thousands available."

[mechnik]

I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings

The free bird leaps on the back of the win and floats downstream till the current ends and dips his wings in the orange sun rays and dares to claim the sky.

But a bird that stalks down his narrow cage can seldom see through his bars of rage his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing.

The caged bird sings with fearful trill of the things unknown but longed for still and is tune is heard on the distant hillfor the caged bird sings of freedom

The free bird thinks of another breeze an the trade winds soft through the sighing trees and the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn and he names the sky his own.

But a caged bird stands on the grave of dreams his shadow shouts on a nightmare scream his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing

The caged bird sings with a fearful trill of things unknown but longed for still and his tune is heard on the distant hill for the caged bird sings of freedom.

Maya Angelou

[zmmmmm]

> How many blocked apps were in the App Store?

An oxymoron?

Part of the problem with the app store is a chilling effect - people don't even try to make controversial apps if they run a large risk of being blocked.

Perhaps you could look at the number of apps in Cydia, since the primary reason to put an app on Cydia is that it does something that would be blocked in the App store. I couldn't find an actual figure but simple searches on the Cydia store show > 35,000 results. I'd say that's much higher than the number of truly malicious Android apps that made it into Google's store and lasted any length of time there.

[dripton]

How would you know how many apps were blocked, if they never showed up in the store?

[at-fates-hands]

I actually would've thought the MS Windows Phone App Store would be even more fertile ground. Not sure how stringent their policies are, but a quick Google search only turned up a rejected Twitter content scraping app which was rejected.

Not to mention if anybody needs more apps, its the Windows Phone App store.

[mtgx]

The WP store is a little more relaxed than the iOS app store - but - it still doesn't have any way to sideload any apps, which means it's still up to Microsoft, a single central entity, to decide what apps you can install on your device. The same is true for any Metro apps.

[dnissley]

Does the WP SDK give you the ability to sideload apps?

At the very least, WP is different from iOS in that their SDK is provided for free (using the express edition of Visual Studio).

[biafra]

No it doesn't. You have to register your phone as one of three with your developer program account which is 79$ per year. The difference to iOS is that your phone is then unlocked for every other developers app signature.

[vaultboy21]

Yeah, as far as I know, the Windows Phone Store certification policies are pretty lax (not sure if that’s reflected in their official terms or their implementation of them; I’m guessing it’s the latter). The only times I hear of apps being rejected or pulled seem to in cases of trademark infringement; and, even-then, only if the infringed-upon company requests them to do so..

I saw this play-out with Vimeo apps not too long ago. Prior to the company launching their (really nice btw) official app there were a few a third-party clients which used the Vimeo name and logo; since then, they've all rebranded or disappeared (I’m guessing at the request of Vimeo to avoid confusion).

Other than that, pretty much everything else seems to fly (I’m guessing security issues and serious bugs that come-up during review aside). This is all anecdotal (I don’t work at Microsoft or review apps for certification) but I’d be pretty shocked if they blocked an app like this.

Anyways, it looks pretty cool, maybe if iOS certification doesn’t go over the dev can port it to WP. For simpler apps (no offense here) I’ve heard it’s fairly quick work and involves a lot less on the testing/optimizing for 1,000+ device SKUs (Android) front.