[lastcat743]

Strange, I observed the very conspiracy culture absorb main stream governance and sociological narratives.

I do believe their coup worked. Next the views asserting this move into fringe conspiracy and the ouroboros continues devouring its own.

[PaulHoule]

As I see it, Donald Trump was factually false but Kamala Harris was emotionally false. As a rhetorician, if I had to choose one or the other, I’d pick the first. [1] I am thinking a lot of how to explain the ‘emotionally false’ bit to those who don’t bellyfeel it but it will probably be another two years or so before I have an explanation that’s transmissible.

[1] but I am not just a rhetorician!

[pjc50]

Isn't that entirely a product of which news channels the voters were watching?

[intended]

Yes. The left and center media is still traditional media with its broken business model and journalistic norms. They don't always live up to their standards, but that is entirely different from what Fox and the right created since the 1970s.

Politically, they decided to eschew Bipartisanship, primarying anyone who crossed party lines. Along side this came Limbaugh and later Fox, which became clearing houses to "just ask questions". See the success in platforming things like Intelligent Design, or Climate denial, giving them the imprimantur of credibility and authenticity. Republican politicans would then follow up by pointing to the news reports and rumors and stall bills, which would then become fodder for the news cycle, closing the loop.

There COULD have been independent thought and counter forces, but in the end consolidation of networks to stay afloat, and becoming part of the party means this is a pipe dream.

This is the engine that keeps our current doom loop going.

[PaulHoule]

No. A facial expression that comes 0.5 seconds after it should can create a perception of inauthenticity as can the use of measured-seeming words. (Yet, an emotional expression that breaks gradually can be the most powerful of all —- Biden’s performance where he feels how “you’re fired” makes him feel or Pelosi’s tears at Trump inauguration 2 hit hard in a way that her usual mask never does)

If there was anything characteristic about Biden to Trump voters it was that they didn’t watch or read the news much at all

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/democrats-need-to-face...

Klein would say he got a huge amount of hate mail from people who said the Times was not putting up strident enough headlines (won’t use the F-word or N-word for Trump) but that the kind of people who read the Times weren’t that the kind of people who need to be persuaded.

Psychoanalysis has been out of fashion for 50+ years but I also think a presidential candidate who looks like your mom evokes feelings of helplessness you had a a child which has to do why I couldn’t stand Clinton II and many blacks couldn’t stand Harris. In two years of chewing on it and people coming around I will have emotional and factual truth reconciled more than I have it now.

[ryeats]

Trying to understand this but what you said to me is essentially, she couldn't prove any of his statements false because she gave off the vibe of someone who was not authentic and trustworthy?

[PaulHoule]

Yeah, particularly if you ask young men, minorities, working class people, etc. But it is not so much ‘is that predicate false’ or ‘did they come to the wrong conclusion?’ but ‘how does it make me feel?’ ‘Illegal alien’ hits people hard because we all obey laws we don’t like. I hate seeing people walking in through the emergency doors in the subway because I am paying. Illegal aliens mostly keep their heads down to keep out of trouble but when you conspicuously defend people who commit terrible crimes you look unempathtic to victims. Empathy for the in-group but not for the out-group is a destructive force.

A distinction we don’t make enough in politics, marketing, McLuhanism and more is between early adopters and laggards. Zohran Mandami played well with young cosmopolitans and people in racially integrated areas but Clinton and Cuomo play well with laggards in all-white and all-black areas because they’ve been around, so does Bernie Sanders. Walking into a group of black nationalists as a 22 years old vanguardist and getting rejected was part of my origin story as an activist and lead but spending years listening to those people and telling the story I saw turned things around.

[intended]

Trump and the Republican party do not exist in a vaccum. They exist in a party-media bubble that simply has different epistemological processes than what everyone else has.

They platform narratives, and anyone not getting on board or supporting the current narrative is ignored and sidelined. This allows them incredible agenda and conversation shaping power.

Its why Trump can do product promotions from the White House lawn, say the sky is green one day and pink the next, without any penalty, and be seen as the Hero.

Its not rhetorical power, its Wrestling / Kayfabe converted into politics.