[amval]

> I was active in the Python community in the 200x timeframe, and I daresay the common consensus is that language didn't matter and a sufficiently smart compiler/JIT/whatever would eventually make dynamic scripting languages as fast as C, so there was no reason to learn static languages rather than just waiting for this to happen.

To be very pedantic, the problem is not that these are dynamic languages _per se_, but that they were designed with semantics unconcerned with performance. As such, retrofitting performance can be extremely challenging.

As a counterexample of fast and dynamic: https://julialang.org/ (of course, you pay the prize in other places)

I agree with your comment overall, though.

[jerf]

I'm sort of surprised I'm not seeing any modernized dynamic scripting languages coming out lately, despite the general trend towards static languages. A fast dynamic language, with a day-one concurrency story, and some other key feature that pushes it ahead seems possible to me. (I dunno, maybe a nice story for binding to Rust instead of binding to C at this point could be enough to lift a language off?) I don't see any reason why dynamic scripting languages as a category couldn't do that. The ones we have now don't, not because the category makes it impossible, but because by the time that was desirable they just had too much baggage, and are all still struggling with it even a decade after they started.

[derdi]

> A fast dynamic language, with a day-one concurrency story

That's pretty much what Erlang claims to be. Of course people will always quibble with "fast".

[jerf]

I do quibble with fast, and I also quibble with "dynamic language". Its variables are untyped, but that about ends the "dynamicness" of the language. It's not what people mean.

Elixir is closer, though BEAM in general still leaves a lot of performance on the table. I'm somewhat surprised that tracing JITs and stuff have not managed to make more progress than they have, but it could be lack of developer time. Unfortunately JITs eat that voraciously.

I'd expect this to be a mutable language, though part of that "day one concurrency story" could be an inability to transmit references between something like Erlang "processes".

[OkayPhysicist]

Welcome to Elixir. A concurrency story baked into its architecture, Rustler for trivial Rust bindings, a full set of project tooling (package management, deployment handling, etc). And a killer combo of database bindings in the form of Ecto and a best-in-class web framework from Phoenix.

And it's got an unusually broad base of existing libraries for how young it is, both because writing bindings is really easy, and because you can import Erlang libraries which have been around since the 80's.

[dmitrygr]

> fast dynamic language, with a day-one concurrency story

simple dynamic scripting languages target people without serious CS background

concurrency is a footgun best hidden from such people, they are not ready for it

[throw10920]

What are examples of those semantics? I'm guessing rebindable functions (and a single function/variable namespace), eval(), and object members available as a dict.

[hmry]

Some examples that come to mind: You can inspect the call stack, and get a list of local variables of your callers. You can assign to object.__class__ to dynamically change an existing object's class at runtime. You can overwrite every operator, including obj.field access, dynamically at runtime (including changing an existing class)

[homarp]

a long time ago, there was Parrot and a bet with Guido https://justatheory.com/2004/08/oscon-notes/