[scott_w]

I think even this point about seeing through all the abstractions being "real engineers" still limits you to, basically, people in their 60s at the youngest.

I just think it's a reductionist view and one that's not necessary. Practical example: beyond reading SQL ANALYZE, I have no idea how Postgres organises and queries data beyond a rough understanding of the model that it exposes. I guess I'm not a "real engineer" because I couldn't tell you how that data is laid out on the disk for efficiency. Yet I'm generally able to write pretty performant data models and query it.

I know engineers who can't even do that, yet their knowledge of DOM and browser logic is so fucking insane, they fixed a shitload of longstanding issues in our product. Where is the line on them being "real engineers?" Is that good enough, or do they need to go deeper into the browser?

I know engineers who don't have that level of depth in either, yet they're consistently able to write bug-free code that's extremely well tested. Do they understand how Python bytecode works? No, they don't have a clue (frankly, neither do I). Yet they solve every problem in their space.