[bragh]

It makes no sense to have a high risk of getting blasted all over local Facebook groups/Instagram/Tiktok for daring to approach while being ugly when they can use dating apps for zero risk. And if dating apps feel expensive to use, then there is Photofeeler also to validate your attractiveness.

[Richbeach]

I sincerely recommend therapy. Not trolling.

[protocolture]

If you see someone filming you, simply don't approach that person.

[__turbobrew__]

Honestly if you are ugly the only chance you have of getting a partner is in real life. Dating apps only serve the top 10% of men, and this isn’t even red pill incel conspiracy, this is fact corroborated by studies done by companies such as okcupid.

Second, if you talk to a stranger in line at the coffee shop nobody is going to put you on the local creeper list, maybe just don’t comment on how smooth their skin is.

[Klonoar]

You are seriously overthinking this shit.

[bragh]

Carefully considering actions that might have life-ruining consequences is not overthinking.

[zbentley]

I recommend being very honest with yourself here, whether or not you want to share it in a reply.

Is the low chance of bad consequences the only factor keeping you from talking to strangers? There’s a low chance of bad consequences when you cross a busy street, too.

Is fear of rejection by an individual or group a factor, too? There’s a much higher chance of that happening, but it’s far from life ruining.

Are you worried that you have social behaviors that make it more likely you are considered creepy in social interactions? If so, are there ways you can reduce those behaviors?

Are there other areas where acute awareness of severe potential negative consequences makes you avoid activities that lots of other people in your cohort might enjoy?

Source: it me. If you’re in a similar situation, know that it can get a lot better. Just takes time and work, like everything.

[bragh]

The risks and consequences of crossing a busy street are nowhere near as unknown or potentially severe. Wait until all the traffic has stopped, look to your left and your right and behind your back (typical situational awareness during bounding overwatch), cross the road. Even if something very rare and extreme happens, nobody sane will blast you on social media for failing to dodge a meteor or a suddenly exploding car.

When it comes to social context, you might miss some kind of sign and the worst cases there are pretty terrifying, might even get arrested in UK, which will lead to losing a job, failing any background checks, might even become homeless — and nobody sane will have any empathy for your mistake.

So I really do not get why people are against dating apps, when those are the best thing ever to avoid catastrophic consequences for initial approach.

[protocolture]

I know cops are pretty crazy in the UK, but I cant imagine a scenario where you get arrested for saying hello to someone.

The worst case scenario for crossing a road is that you die. Thats worse than some girls laughing at you on social media.

[zbentley]

I agree with the adjacent commenter: therapy would help with this.

As someone who has similar anxieties, I was pleasantly surprised in two ways when getting professional help:

Surprise one: the advice for confronting anxiety--specifically social anxiety around forming connections--was actionable and specific rather than woo-woo and "just be present/mindful/listen to your thoughts and they go away"-flavored.

Surprise two: therapists identified specific areas where I had broken or atrophied social skills and helped to build them. Just like crossing a street, most unprompted social interactions:

a) Have an expected script which, if followed, reduces the risk of severe negative consequences to near zero. If you didn't know the script you mentioned ("Wait until all traffic has stopped..."), then crossing a street would be dangerous indeed.

b) Have a higher likelihood of minor, non-lasting negative consequences: getting honked at by oblivious drivers, playing do-I-go-left-or-right chicken with oncoming pedestrians, bumping into people, and so on.

c) Have a lot of rules that are contextual (local traffic laws :: mores about what is acceptable in a park vs. in a pub). Some of those rules can be researched, but a lot of them are unspoken/gained through practice--and practice with others is most effective.

d) Are not practiced perfectly by most people. Those apprehensions you have? Those awkwardnesses and anxieties and hyper-awareness of the consequences of failure? Those are shared by tons of people! Even women in the dating scene--hell, especially women in the dating scene--are screwing up, recovering, bailing out, gathering themselves, and trying again constantly.

If you are worried about "missing some kind of sign and ... losing a job", that sounds a lot like either anxiety (therapy surprise one helps) or some missing/mis-functioning specific skills (therapy surprise two, and I cannot underline this enough, really helps here).

(Caveat: be aware that psych help, just like friends, car mechanics, or clothing stores, is variable in quality and highly preference-based; multiple selection passes may be needed before you find someone that you vibe well with).

I also really recommend Devon Price's writing on the subject. He has a few focuses that may be less relevant here (experiencing autism, being queer/trans), but also writes extensively on social/romantic interaction as a practiced, scripted phenomenon; I have found those essays to really help contextualize some of this stuff: https://devonprice.medium.com/

> I really do not get why people are against dating apps, when those are the best thing ever to avoid catastrophic consequences for initial approach.

I'm not against dating apps; I'm responding to the "unprompted social outreach is risky/a bad cost-benefit" claim.

In fact, you can get a lot more out of dating apps if you have practiced the skills required to be comfortable with ("comfortable with" is not the same as "good at") apropos in-person connection forming!

Also:

> nobody sane will blast you on social media

I agree. Raging about someone's social gaffe on social media is not sane/healthy behavior. Since jackasses raging online is nearly never as life-ruining as you might fear, framing it as "not sane and therefore not worth losing sleep over" is a good approach!

...and people on social media routinely rage about pedestrians, cyclists, slow drivers, etc. With pictures, license plates, death threats--the works. With dating, just like with crossing the street, it is not worth worrying about: be kind/do no harm, learn (potentially with help) the skills needed to progress, be willing to fail a lot while learning, and it will turn out well. I promise.

EDIT: Also, one last thing:

Avoid parts of the internet that use language like "daring to approach while ugly" and "on initial approach" when talking about dating. I've been there. I get how good it can feel to be validated by people with similar experiences, who explain that it isn't your fault/that thinking about dating as adversarial game theory is healthy. But those communities are toxic, self-hatred-reinforcing hostility factories. Seriously, go for a walk/watch TV/read a book instead.

If those are terms you came to use organically, consider avoiding them to avoid being associated with those places.

[Klonoar]

You're not "carefully considering actions", and enough people have already pointed out to you how therapy is likely a good path to go down.

[const_cast]

They are, but they're correct that attitudes have changed.

People largely do not want to be approached in public and actively take steps to make sure it doesn't happen. Simple things like not making eye contact, or wearing headphones everywhere.

The reason men don't approach women in public anymore isn't some crazy conspiracy or anything - it's because women have told them to stop. Both implicitly through behavior and body language, and explicitly by saying "do not approach us in public".

It's complicated, because a lot of men do not know how to be normal or respectful. So who can blame women for being wary? But, the result now is that if you do choose that approach, you're coming in with an implicit bias against that behavior. You sort of have to work harder to overcome that bias, and for a lot of situations you just won't. Which is fine, just try again later, but that's what's going on.

[protocolture]

>it's because women have told them to stop. Both implicitly through behavior and body language, and explicitly by saying "do not approach us in public".

Its really situational. And definitely difficult to always identify. But there are avenues. I always found bars and clubs to be the worst way to approach women.

>actively take steps to make sure it doesn't happen

I used to do door to door sales, very briefly. And I was amazed at the fact that, risking fines, my coworkers would approach houses on the government no knock register, and reliably make sales. Not advocating for breach of consent. But there are multiple ways to "meet" someone that don't require a cold open at a bar when they have their headphones in. I always tell other men to go volunteer for a local club or charity. Or take a pottery class or something.

[Klonoar]

> The reason men don't approach women in public anymore isn't some crazy conspiracy or anything

Respectfully: no, this is just an excuse.

I don't know where y'all lost the plot but when I was growing up it was widely considered that how you talked to other people was a skill. Skills require practice.

There's a billion people out there. Not everyone you meet is going to be against you talking them up. Do the work, lol

[const_cast]

I agree. That doesn’t mean it’s a conspiracy, that means society has changed. Not am I saying people shouldn’t approach others. I’m saying it’s harder, which it is and I think you agree with.