[noelwelsh]

Like you, I'm very much in the role playing is story telling camp. I think the difference is people who, like you and I, want to play in the world, and people who want to play with the world. I.e. they are playing a meta game where they play with the rules to "win". This makes no sense to me, because there is no winning when you play in the world. It's the story you tell that is the point. But I can understand their POV because I do play to win in other domains.

[rtkwe]

Every table and group has it's own ideal version of the game and you can play either in D&D. I think a lot of people fall into the play to win because it's simpler and fits the mould of most games people are used to playing so it makes more sense to apply that pattern to role playing games.