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by osigurdson 355 days ago
According to ChatGPT, Bitcoin market cap is $2T while the cost to carry out a 51% attack is $4B. If correct, it seems a little imbalanced.
6 comments

First, that figure is way off. Marathon alone has a market cap over $4B and controls less than 5% of the total hash rate.

Second, the system only seems vulnerable if you ignore economic incentives. A 51% attack isn't just technically difficult - it's economically irrational. Pulling it off would cost billions, and even then, there's no clear way to profit from it. The only scenario where it makes sense is a non-economic actor (e.g. a hostile government) aiming to disrupt Bitcoin. But even then, that investment could be neutralized by a fork that tweaks the mining algorithm, instantly rendering the attacker's hardware obsolete.

It's true that buying 51% hash power would cost far more than $4B. Some people assume that you could rent 51% hash power for a short time (like a day) to do the attack.
According to ChatGPT (bad source I know but can't find it anywhere else), the entire value of the entire mining network is about $6B. What do you think it is?
Closer to $20B. MARA owns $1B in equipment for example.
If we're talking about a fork, couldn't a fork just ignore the attack? The normal miners aren't forced to use the attacker's blocks after all.
The problem is that there's no reliable way to identify who mined a given block, so you can't simply have the network "ignore blocks from the attacker." The coinbase transaction may contain identifying info (e.g., pool name) but it's not mandatory nor authenticated.
Why would someone want a random block chain company to own 5% of the possibility of destroying their holdings? What if the company gets co-opted by some nation state actor? Bitcoin really seems like a terrible place to keep wealth.
I'm not sure I follow your question. Who is the "someone" you're referring to? And what do you mean by "destroying their holdings"? Even in a 51% attack, an attacker can't alter wallet balances or arbitrarily erase funds.

Also, what alternative "place to keep wealth" is truly immune to a nation-state actor? Cryptocurrency is actually unique in that, with something like a brainwallet, seizure can be made practically impossible.

If you own 5% of the hash rate you have ~0% ability to attack the network.
Yes, but if you're a nation state with dictatorial control over a nation's resources, +5% might be all you need.
I guess all of these arguments have existed since the beginning of Bitcoin (51% attack, miner centralization, supply chain centralization, etc). What we do know is while it theoretically could happen it hasn't happened yet.
Just for the energy: Current hash rate is around 995m TH/s[1]. The best off the shelf miner on the market is the S21 which can hash at ~200 TH/s [2]. Assuming all of the hash rate comprised of S21s without operational inefficiency, we would have ~4,975,000 S21s hashing on the network. They also use up about 16.67 J/TH , which is 3334 J for 200TH. This is what’s expended per second.

The average time to mine a block is 10 minutes so let’s convert our J spent per block for one miner : 33346010 ‎ = 2,000,400. With about 4m of these, that’s about 8 trillion joules per block. Now if we divide that by 3.6m to get kWh, we’re back around ~2m kWh per block. Texas is about 15 cents per kWh so we get about $300k spent per block.

To 51% attack, we’d need to spend a little bit more than that. With full competition, and an attempt to mine empty blocks, it would take about $48m to attack the network for a day (144 blocks). And that’s just back of the envelope math.

Realistically, not everyone has the latest and greatest in mining equipment and probably burn more money with less efficient miners.

And all this is on top of the capex required to acquire 4m S21s, which would be around $10B at around $3k a pop.

[1] https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_network_hash_rate

[2] https://hashrateindex.com/rigs/bitmain-antminer-s21+

ChatGPT famously can't do math. A pocket calculator can give you the right answer here
That's a dated rule at this point, ChatGPT has been able to use its Python interpreter as a calculator for a while and in my experience will opt to do that for back-of-the-envelope calculations.
Claude deep research estimates that it would cost 20-40b and "vastly exceeds the rational economic gain". Ideological/nation-state motivation would be the only reason to do this.
That market cap would quickly collapse if there was a 51% attack.
One can take short positions on bitcoin almost as easily as long positions. With enough leverage, a well-connected firm could probably make a low 11-digit bet fairly easily.
Counterparty risk asks whether you'll collect on that bet.

Also, the firms who take the other side of that bet talk, and you aren't going to be able to get tens of billions of dollars of derivatives without people figuring out what you're doing and acting against you.

> Counterparty risk asks whether you'll collect on that bet.

You can make those bets on regulated exchanges, thanks to bitcoin-trust ETFs. IBIT is the largset of those, with $74bn assets under management, and it looks like options contracts are available. Correlated bets would also be easily available with companies like Microstrategy.

I think the biggest risk to such a move would be legal, since executing a demonstration 51% attack would plausibly result in a market manipulation investigation.

I see your ChatGPT generated argument and raise you my DeepSeek generated rebuttal:

1. The $4B "Cost" Is Fundamentally Misinterpreted:

* It's Not a "Cost" Like Buying an Asset: The $4B figure (if accurate) typically refers to the theoretical short-term cost to rent sufficient hashrate to perform a temporary attack. This does not mean you can "buy" control of Bitcoin for $4B.

* Acquisition Cost vs. Rental Cost: Actually acquiring the hardware (ASICs) and infrastructure (data centers, power contracts) needed to permanently threaten the network would cost orders of magnitude more – potentially tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars – and take years. This hardware market is finite and competitive.

* Sustained Cost Ignored: A meaningful attack requires sustained hashrate dominance for a significant time (days/weeks), not just a single block. The ongoing electricity and operational costs for this would be astronomical, likely exceeding the initial "rental" figure many times over during the attack period.

2. Market Cap Does Not Equal "Cost to Attack":

* Apples vs. Oranges: Comparing market cap (the total value of all coins) to attack cost is invalid. Market cap reflects speculative value based on future utility and scarcity. Attack cost is a technical and operational expenditure.

* You Don't "Steal" the Market Cap: Successfully executing a 51% attack does not grant the attacker control over the $2T in Bitcoin. At best, it allows double-spending their own coins or censoring some transactions temporarily. The vast majority of coins remain secured in wallets the attacker cannot access.

* Attack Destroys Value, Not Captures It: A successful attack would catastrophically undermine confidence in Bitcoin, causing its price (and thus market cap) to collapse rapidly. The attacker would destroy the very value they supposedly spent $4B to "access," making the attack economically irrational unless motivated by non-financial reasons (e.g., state-level sabotage).

3. Game Theory & Miner Incentives Are Ignored:

* Miners are Deeply Invested: Miners have billions invested in hardware, facilities, and operations. Their business model relies on Bitcoin having value. Deliberately attacking the network destroys their investment and future income. Honest mining is vastly more profitable long-term.

* Community Defense: The Bitcoin community would detect an attack in progress. Exchanges, businesses, and node operators would coordinate to reject the attacker's chain via a "hard fork," rendering the attack useless and isolating the attacker's resources. The attacker loses everything.

* Security Scales with Value: Bitcoin's security model is designed so that as the value (and thus reward for attacking) increases, the cost of attacking increases even more due to competition driving up hashrate and hardware costs. The $4B figure is a snapshot; a rising price attracts more miners, pushing attack costs higher.

4. Practical Realities Make It Near-Impossible:

* Hashrate Distribution: Bitcoin's hashrate is geographically distributed across thousands of entities and jurisdictions. Coordinating or coercing enough miners to collude for an attack is logistically and politically infeasible.

* Resource Mobilization: Amassing the physical resources (ASICs, power, data centers) secretly and quickly enough to launch a surprise attack without alerting the network is practically impossible at Bitcoin's scale.

* State Actor? Even if a powerful nation-state attempted this (ignoring cost), the detection risk is high, the economic fallout would be global, and the community fork defense would likely succeed, making it a costly failure.

Conclusion: The comparison between Bitcoin's market cap and a theoretical, misinterpreted attack cost fundamentally misunderstands Bitcoin's security model, economics, and game theory. The $4B figure drastically understates the real-world cost and ignores the catastrophic economic consequences for the attacker. Bitcoin's security lies not in it being impossible to temporarily disrupt, but in the immense, sustained, and economically irrational cost required to mount a meaningful and lasting attack, coupled with the network's robust defenses and stakeholder incentives. The imbalance perceived is an illusion created by comparing two fundamentally different metrics.

I guess in reality you would just pressure the big miners since the top 4 control 80%. Nuts.
Where is that figure from? You're probably looking at mining pools, which don't actually own the hardware - individual miners do. A pool is just a service that coordinates many miners to work together and split the rewards. If a pool tried to behave maliciously, miners would simply switch to another pool and the pool would quickly lose its hashrate.
The problem isn't pools but manufacturers.

Competitive ASIC miners are manufactured by only a few companies. It's not inconceivable that they could use TC to lock them to specific pools or simply refuse to sell ASICs to the general public.

No one got time to read 15 paragraphs of AI slop
That's the point. It was written in response to AI slop in the first place. If you had the time to read the first sentence you'd understood that.