[jstanley]

Just because you don't know what the best move is doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[ysofunny]

there is only a perfect move in certain kinds of constrained "games", like a fight.

[jstanley]

Enumerate your possible moves.

Evaluate your personal utility function over all possible future timelines of the universe, conditional on each of your possible moves.

The move that has the highest score is the best move.

[1propionyl]

At that point the map is the territory.

[jstanley]

Yes. The territory has an optimal move. If your map is not good enough to identify it, that's a property of your map not of the territory.

[1propionyl]

No, it is not. First of all the territory isn't fixed. Second of all the existence of a fitness landscape (let alone ocean) doesn't guarantee the existence of unique optima, nor that the ones you identify aren't in a second or less your loss because your opponent read you. The other person's behavior is unpredictable but can be guided, and likewise. Feints are a huge part of fighting.

To think you can identify a model in this situation is pure hubris. Absolutely no one who fights thinks this way. Fighting is NOT LIKE CHESS.

This fundamental faith in modeling is dangerous. It overestimates its own applicability, and ignores its predisposition to only focus on the most available data (under the incorrect assumption that if you collect more and more it will eventually "average out").

[jstanley]

The entire universe is like chess.

Yes your opponent can make a move and you don't know what move they'll make. Chess is like that too.

I'm not saying this is in fact a good way to win a physical fight.

I'm also not saying the optimal move is unique. If 2 moves have the same utility then they can both be optimal.

What I'm saying is that just because you don't know what is the best move doesn't mean a best move exists.