[RangerScience]

Note: many neurospicy brains do not get the thing where something happens on “automatic”. If you’ve tried to “build a habit” and never got to the “now it’s automatic” stage, don’t beat yourself up about it. AFAIK, we have to rely on patterns and explicit attention and reinforcement (“everyday I do this, I have a good day, so now I’ve got more motivation every day to do it”)

[vjvjvjvjghv]

For me it’s often that once a habit gets automatic, I forget about it and stop doing it. My habits are mostly formed by things I fear and think about a lot like getting out of shape and fat, going broke or dying lonely.

[sandspar]

This seems implausible. People with mild mental illnesses are still animals. All animals can be conditioned. When you leave a building, do you exit through the door or the window? I assume the door.

[p_l]

Conditioning does not equal "habit". You can train a lot of things to the level of muscle memory (like I always check seat belts before moving and avoid taking them off, or how I mentally recall coordinated turns even when turning while walking), but it's a completely different set of behaviours - or at least totally different difficulty level - when it comes to "habits" that take longer time and aren't linked to directly executed skills - think like making a habit of training every few days to get more fit, or even habit of checking email at the start of work day.

[tenacious_tuna]

People with ADHD don't experience the task-completion-reward-loop like others; i.e., it's vastly diminished. This makes building habits more difficult because it looks more like a task that takes energy rather than continuing an establishes behavior.

> When you leave a building, do you exit through the door or the window? I assume the door.

This is a poor example; I think discussing workouts suffices. If a workout is mentally engaging (bouldering, arial silks, an active team sport) it's easier to engage in than a simple, unengaging, repeated task (weight lifting, running, cycling). Why? Because the mentally engaging exercise is appealing because it absorbs attention, which can help overcome the diminished reinforcement cycle.

If you don't already have a workout habit, framed to an ADHD person, it's a crap value proposition: spend time and energy to do something boring and you should feel better, but historically the things people say will make you feel better never have that effect, and you only ever end up with less time and energy to do the things you actually want to do.

In my personal experience, I loathe going to the gym on my own because it's boring and takes time and energy that I would rather spend interacting with friends or playing games: it's a "task" that I "should" do, but it never feels rewarding when I do it. However, if I go bouldering, I'm not bored because my brain focuses on the "problem" of positioning and coordination and I feel like I"m having fun because of the problem I can satisfy my brain with, which distracts me from the energy expenditure both in the logistics (going to gym, changing, showering, etc) and from the actual work my body is doing.

[mirabar]

I don't know enough about the science of what you reply to, but neurodivergence is not a mental illness, so not sure what you're implying here. I'd also wager people leave rooms by the door because it is easier, so I don't think that requires a habit or conditioning.

[sandspar]

Neurodivergence is an internet-nurtured buzzword so it doesn't have a very definite form in the first place. In general it refers to conditions like autism, ADHD, and Tourette's, all of which are found in the DSM, a compendium of mental disorders.

[tenacious_tuna]

> Neurodivergence is an internet-nurtured buzzword

No, it's a well-defined term from an expert in the space and a member of the community [1], coined to describe an underserved group of people who didn't have existing terminology to describe themselves [2]. Reducing it to a "buzzword" to describe people who have "mental disorders" or "conditions" is a gross misunderstanding of both the term, the people it describes, and the space.

[1]: https://neuroqueer.com/neurodiversity-terms-and-definitions/

[2]: https://neuroqueer.com/throw-away-the-masters-tools/

[pjerem]

Except it’s harder and harder the more you age. And it’s true for animals too.