[beardedwizard]

What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? This comment strikes me as wild considering the exact same thing is playing out in America right now, and a bunch of people are making up their minds about "Americans" and what they stand for.

The same has been true for Iran, only up until now (and probably still) we have always had a more nuanced discussion - its the Iranian government, not the people of Iran.

Come on, the government of many countries does not necessarily represent the people.

[keutoi]

Israel is supposed to be a democratic state. If the average Israeli disagrees with this they can speak up. The only voices we are hearing now are those who support it's current activities. Those who oppose are fewer and quieter.

[beardedwizard]

what evidence do you have to support that claim?

I'm also baffled by the suggestion that democracy truly represents a majority and the apparent belief that dissent is quickly processed and rectified by democracy. Which country do you think shows this is working well?

[keutoi]

It might be true that I am in a bubble and I am only hearing voices supporting these atrocities.

Democracy need not represent the majority, but if it works against the majority without any repercussions then who is to blame? Will the leadership be held accountable?

This war was started because the government knew they can get away with it. Every citizen is complicit in every crime committed by their government. Don't the citizens enjoy the fruits of crime even after claiming to oppose the actions of their government?

[beardedwizard]

What specifically do you want individual citizens to do? Are you yourself complicit in everything your government does? Do you even know what they do?

Israelis are protesting, for better or worse this is what democracy looks like.

Another question to ask, does every Russian support the war in Ukraine? What can they do about it?

[keutoi]

Yes, I am complicit in the crimes of my government. I am helpless do much, but the crime must be acknowledged. We are a part of the system, no sense in burying our head in the sand.

Only when a crime is acknowledge, we can talk about punishments. Will Israeli people not profit from this war? Protests will have some teeth if steps be taken so this will not repeat itself. I don't see this happening.

Look at USA, war after war. Presidents are blamed but not punished and the population enjoys the economical hegemony that is the fruit of war.

[chipsrafferty]

People aren't speaking up because it's only a democracy on paper. If you're too vocal about your opposition to Israel you will be taken care of.

[int_19h]

The problem with this take is that the polls show a strong support for all those things that the Israeli government doing in Gaza among its citizens. That is, the average Israeli does agree. I don't think that the minority that disagrees is to blame, but they also clearly cannot meaningfully speak for the nation anymore.

In a similar vein, I'm ethnically Russian and a Russian citizen. I don't support the Russian invasion of Ukraine in any way, shape, or form, and I don't think that I am responsible for it as a Russian. However, it is also clear to me that the majority of Russians do support it (or at least think that it's fine), and on that basis I don't consider myself to be a part of that nation anymore, regardless of ethnicity.

[FireBeyond]

> What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do?

Funny you say this because you don’t have to look far for people saying that “Gazans deserve what’s happening” because the average Gazan should fight back against Hamas.

[atmavatar]

Some things to consider:

* The majority of the Palestinian population are minors (< 18)

* The last nationwide election in Palestine was 2006

In other words, the last time an election was held, the majority of Palestinians weren't yet born, let alone old enough to vote in it. So, it's difficult to hold the Palestinian people en masse responsible for Hamas in the same way we'd hold Israelis responsible for their current government, who held their last election in 2022.

[beardedwizard]

The same thing has been said generally about Muslims and Islamic terror organizations.

Well anyway, it is still crazy to me that somebody is making a decision about the entire population of a country based on the governments actions in 2025.