[wuschel]

I would not extrapolate from the discourse with one German to a general statement of a heterogeneous population of ~80M people. There are many different opinions and positions in Germany - like in every country in the world. Please keep that in mind.

Germany has indeed still have a ‘vaccination’. How well it works, and whether it is not exploited by politics, is another matter.

Lastly, the conflict in the Middle East is one of the most complex conflicts in recent human history - and there is no easy way out. That also applies to the situation in Gaza.

[MrJohz]

As someone living in Germany, that philosophy of "we don't have the right to intervene or say anything" is definitely embedded in the culture here. Obviously there are plenty of people who don't follow this philosophy, and there are left-wing pro-Palestine movements here as well, but overall there's a big cultural sense of obligation to Israel due to Germany's history.

A friend of mine even ended up talking to a German diplomat in Israel, who said much the same thing: they could cosign other nations' condemnations of Israeli actions when they happened, but they couldn't condemn Israeli actions unilaterally. Obviously that was just his opinion and not an official viewpoint of the German government, but I found it fascinating that Germany still felt this sense of needing to make things right to Israel specifically.

[Cyph0n]

No, there is nothing “complex” about Gaza - neither before nor after Oct 7.

The late Michael Brooks shared a small thought experiment that might help elucidate this: https://youtu.be/7ebPj_FqM5Q

[VonGallifrey]

It’s one thing to call the situation “nothing complex”, but there was no solution in this clip.

Usually when people call something complex they mean that the solution is complex.

[Cyph0n]

[flagged]

[JumpCrisscross]

> idea that the injustice & domination should continue because there is no clear cut solution is pure evil

It’s prioritisation. There are multiple horrible civil wars, rebellions and displacements happening around the world right now. Every person doesn’t need to have a position on each one; there is an argument that’s counterproductive. (Exhibit A: the Columbia protests.)

[Cyph0n]

Since you brought up the Columbia protests and general dissent inside the US: how many such conflicts and genocides are directly backed and propped up by the US?

[JumpCrisscross]

> how many such conflicts and genocides are directly backed and propped up by the US?

Fewer than you’d think [1]. (We send aid to Sudan and are practically uninvolved in Myanmar.)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_confli...

[VonGallifrey]

How exactly do you suggest that a country like Germany (since Germanys inaction was the topic of this thread) reach those goals? How does Germany end the blockade of Gaza? How does Germany end apartheid in the West Bank?

Just because I can’t do anything to improve the situation does not mean that I am in favour of the status quo. That does not make me evil either.

[ath3nd]

> Just because I can’t do anything to improve the situation does not mean that I am in favour of the status quo. That does not make me evil either.

It does. The Germans who stood aside when the Nazis rose to power and the soldiers just "executing orders" were as much to blame for the rise of Hitler as the ones supporting it. Not taking a side against evil is taking evil's side. And you of all peoples should have learned from your history. Genocide is bad.

> How does Germany end apartheid in the West Bank?

By applying pressure on the international community to boycott Israel. Same way Germany is applying pressure on the international community to boycott Russia.

[Cyph0n]

Are you seriously asking me this question, or is this an attempt at a rhetorical? And why are we shifting the goalposts once again?

How do you think apartheid South Africa ended? How does any country pressure another?

In a supposedly democratic nation like Germany, how would citizens pressure their government to stop supporting & providing diplomatic cover for another to commit a genocide & maintain apartheid?

[dizlexic]

The idea that Isreal is occupying the west bank and or Gaza goes back to the 1967 6 day war and has jack all to do with Palestinian borders real or imaginary.

Those lands were the property of Jordan and Egypt...