[_virtu]

I mean the grandparent poster isn’t wrong. This whole system is stacked against us.

It’s difficult to keep moving knowing that we don’t have the ability to opt out of the way our whole society works. This is a very broad discussion that I know has many different facets to it, but the grandparent poster seems to be calling out what a lot of people believe is true.

[tptacek]

I think when you start talking like this, you're winding yourself up, which is just not a good way to confront tough decisions.

[AnimalMuppet]

> It’s difficult to keep moving knowing that we don’t have the ability to opt out of the way our whole society works.

Pretty much nobody ever did, in any society, with few exceptions. "Going to America" was one exception, and then "going west". But for most people, for most of civilization, that has never been an option.

And, in fact, the whole system is stacked against us less than it has been for most of the history of civilization. You aren't a serf. You aren't a slave. You aren't an indentured servant, or bound to a ruler or leader in any way.

But I think what many people are feeling is the first derivative. There was a time when the system worked better for people (at least for white males) - say the 1950s or 1960s. People can feel the first derivative being negative. They feel the loss of something. I think that's behind the surge of this sentiment.

[kasey_junk]

> There was a time when the system worked better for people (at least for white males) - say the 1950s or 1960s

Even before adding qualifiers like “in America, in certain industries”, etc. You have to be very specific about what you mean by better and how you measure it.

There are certainly things that are worse now than then, but most of the time when someone actually measures it’s mostly true things were worse in the 50s and 60s.

[scarface_74]

Yes because white straight males have it so hard in America now all the statistics show it…

[roarcher]

Is Reddit bleeding into HN now? The anti-work subs often feature these whiny hot takes like "woe is me, I don't get to do whatever I want" followed by a comical self-impressed implication that there's a great academic discourse behind this profound thought. Not used to seeing it here though.

[ryandrake]

I don’t think it’s specifically Reddit, but more like “normal life” bleeding into HN. The tech industry (and therefore, HN) has this weird “positive thoughts only” vibe where everything negative is considered whiny and curmudgeonly (as the newest HN posting guideline puts it).

Uncritical “this is great, that is awesome, things are wonderful” posts get a pass here and are not held to some high academic discourse standard, while “things are not so great, life is not that good” posts get responses like we’ve seen in this thread.

[roarcher]

On the contrary, there are plenty of things to complain about and I personally find HN to be a tough, even cynical, audience. The guidelines don't say you can't be negative, you just have to explain your reasoning.

One doesn't have to subscribe to toxic positivity to see the childish absurdity of a statement like "It’s difficult to keep moving knowing that we don’t have the ability to opt out of the way our whole society works."

[ryandrake]

Regarding the childish statement: I think we’ve all felt like that at some point in our lives. If you haven’t, I kind of envy you. I can admit that when I had a child I agonized over the fact that I was bringing a life into this pretty terrible world without considering whether that new life wanted to be in it. Nobody actively consented to being part of society, it’s just a default. And it is extremely difficult to opt-out. I don’t think that’s a particularly absurd belief.

[roarcher]

I have felt like that. When I was a child.

And you totally can opt out. You can go live in a mud hut in the woods. People do it all the time. But we both know that's not what the original commenter means by "opting out of society". They mean "I want to opt out of contributing to society while somehow still enjoying its benefits". Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way, and it is indeed childish to think that it should, at least as long as those benefits come from the contributions of other people.

[whism]

Hi, I don’t fully disagree with you, but a gentle reminder that for many “contribution” is itself out of reach.

An aside: I remember when I was a child, my dad’s favorite coffee mug was black ceramic with a white monotype slogan “Life’s a bitch and then you die”. If that made you chuckle, maybe you’re in a pretty good spot :)

[_virtu]

First I’d like to state that if you look at my post history I’ve been here far before the bleed in from Reddit. Your whole response is pretty cynical and leads in the negative direction so I don’t know how you would want to have a positive interaction with your comment, but I’ll try anyway.

Regarding “woe is me, I don’t get to do whatever I want”. No, that’s not the way that I’m thinking. It’s more that people CAN feel this way at one point or another in this society of ours. The original comment that I responded too was simply belittling the op for having those types of thoughts. It’s valid and important to address those feelings. Whether or not you can do anything to change the way society is based on those is another story.

I do believe that there is an actual discussion to be had about adjusting our society to allow for a more healthy balance, that’s not stacked against the middle and lower classes. I love my craft as a software engineer and I plan to continue working even if I make it to retirement. It’s just that the system we live in could be more kind to the people in it.

I love HN, but this type of mentality is pretty toxic and isn’t conducive to the healthy conversations that I enjoy in it AWAY from Reddit.

[BobaFloutist]

Fascinating! Try talking anyone working in literally any other industry and tell me more about how the whole system is stacked against software developers.