[chilldsgn]

I don't know much about electrical grids, but I'm wondering if something like this concept could help South Africa with its endlessly struggling electrical grid problems. My city constantly has power outages and the majority of people cannot afford installing solar into their homes.

[chithanh]

It is not necessary for the majority to install solar.

Pakistan had similar problems with rolling blackouts, and mass import of photovoltaic equipment and batteries from China has reduced the load on the grid so that outages no longer occur frequently. In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43620309

[dylan604]

> In fact the demand has shrunk so much that it jeopardizes financing of coal power companies.

That is something that I think would be the impetus needed to motivate reduction in coal power plants. If they become unprofitable to operate, then will the market finally decide to stop using them? Sadly, I could see the current US administration deciding to offer subsidies to keep coal.

[chithanh]

Yes, it is happening already (both the pivot away from unprofitable non-renewable energy, and US government intervention to tax imports of photovoltaics).

Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCE) from PV is below the fossil fuel range since 2020, and since 2024 it is also below if you include battery storage, which you need to turn solar into near constant energy supply.

https://www.irena.org/Publications/2024/Sep/Renewable-Power-...

https://electrek.co/2025/06/20/batteries-are-so-cheap-now-so...

[sheepybloke]

This has been happening in the US for the past 10 years. The big switch has been away from coal and some slower natural gas generators towards more nimble natural gas generators. Coal and other natural gas generators take a while to start up and shut down (think on the order of a day), which don't work well for coordinating with renewables and are much more expensive to operate. So companies have been switching to faster natural gas generators that start up in minutes to hours to support when demand is higher.

[scraptor]

Subsidies is too technocratic, trump style is to just order utilities to keep the plants operational at negative profit https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/climate/michigan-coal-pla...

[miningape]

Eskom is already trying to take people to court over "non-compliant" solar panel installations [1]. I wouldn't hold my breath. Like most things in ANC South Africa this is a political issue where Eskom wants to get their cut for providing a non-existent service - and then funnel that money back to their friends and family for their non-existent services.

[1] https://www.ecr.co.za/shows/stacey-jsbu/eskom-cracks-down-no...

[throw83838484]

More likely it is local goverment. Theymake a profit on reselling cheap energy provided by Eskom.

[chilldsgn]

Yup... It's about feeding the greedy fat cats at the top.

A simple solution like "just install solar" isn't going to solve the problems necessarily, because it originates from greed, mismanagement, corruption at the core. Solar is more of a downstream solution in my mind (correct me if I'm wrong).

Demand for coal will be reduced, which might most likely lead to massive job losses in not only the coal mining sector, but also logistics, exacerbating the troubling unemployment issues the country also faces. I don't really want to go down THAT rabbit hole :D

[happymellon]

From what I understand, South Africa's electrical problems have been long term political.

[cinntaile]

That's the case everywhere in the world, it's not a tech issue. The tech exists.

[happymellon]

Not always, sometimes its logistics, sometimes outside forces which create time pressures.

Not everything can be solved by money, sometimes its a mythical man month/9 women can't produce a baby in 1 month issue.

However in this scenario, its pure neglect which is causing power issues.

[AdamN]

In this case though, high reliability electricity delivery is very doable. Many countries achieve 3 9s or higher. Sure there are the issues like the recent Spain/Portugal blackout but even that has some political roots.

[cogman10]

Renewables solve logistics problems.

Running a fossil fuel grid requires a bunch of logistics to source, refine, and deliver the fuel. In addition to general equipment upkeep.

Renewables only require equipment upkeep.

[chilldsgn]

It's the upkeep problem that is a problem in South Africa. It's like government doesn't understand the concept of "maintenance"

[hinkley]

Most of those problems are politically motivated. You know how fast towns tend to grow. Someone new the grid was going to need upgrades. Someone else decided it would be better spent on something else. That’s politics.

And if a town grows surprisingly fast, that may also be politics. Even geopolitics (eg, refugees).

[bawolff]

> Not everything can be solved by money, sometimes its a mythical man month/9 women can't produce a baby in 1 month issue.

I mean, its not like they just discovered electricity. Sure sometimes things take time, but that is still a money issue because it means there was insufficient budget for maintainance and future capacity planning

[nbadg]

The technology certainly exists, though some of it is pretty new and not all of it is mature or commoditized (particularly in the context of high levels of penetration of variable renewables on the grid).

That being said, politics aren't the only reason why it might not be deployed. Capitalization issues, for one, are also common. Additionally, you have to make a judgement call about what you consider included in "politics" -- for example, does corruption count?

[mc32]

It’s a corruption issue where certain people use it as a personal bank. Lots of deferred maintenance, no build out, but lots of greed -not just a little.

[cinntaile]

The political system there clearly allows for high levels of corruption.

[chilldsgn]

Yup, it is deeply political, and I think ordinary citizens such as myself don't even understand how deep the corruption goes.

[philipallstar]

South Africa's problem is the ANC stopped Eskom building what it needed with foreseen growth when they came into power in the 90s. They wanted to introduce competition into the generation market.

They didn't introduce competition, as you might expect from a hyper-incompetent government, and just let the issue languish, and South Africa now just doesn't have enough power plants to serve its population when it takes one offline for scheduled maintenance.

But at least a lot more people got to buy Audis with the freed-up money sloshing around.

[bahmboo]

South Africa's problems with the electrical system and structure are well documented but also complicated. Here's a good recent video covering it, there are many others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUnR8PBtVW8

[hinkley]

In cases where transmission lines are hitting capacity particularly on hot days, this is a place where batteries can help. Peak shaving is can’t help you with grids that are oversubscribed for more than a few hours a day but they can help load shift for part of the day. The batteries can still have value for emissions reductions if and when you finally get right of ways for more power distribution.

[PicassoCTs]

They tried that - especially companies like BMW - and they got no permits, because the state run power company wants money for providing nothing.

The problem is also that thieves steal the copper cables, even for micro-grids. You can not tech your way out of social/cultural problems.

Socialist cultural rot is real and the only way out is to eradicate cultures that encourage that mindset. All the ingredients are there- but the people are still set on telling themselves that robin hood story that destroys everything.

[kashunstva]

> eradicate cultures

Political movements that have sought to “eradicate cultures” have generally gone pretty poorly in history.

I read the clarifications downstream; and I gather that the intent here is not as malicious as it sounds. That said, I don’t see how the mindset of “I’m going to maximize my extraction from the system.” is substantively different from “I’m going to minimize my input into the system.” The net effect is similar. For example, the current U.S. president paid no taxes for years through various dodges, a fact about which he boasted and which he defended. But without a doubt he is extracting disproportionate benefits.

Undoubtedly corruption is rampant in the systems you refer to; but all of these things exist in democratic free-market economies as well.

[PicassoCTs]

Islamism has eradicated basically every other culture in the middle east. Western market capitalism has supplanted a ton of cultures in east asia. If its toxic and dysfunctional it has to go, or your country deteriorates into another Zimbabwe or Russia.

PS: There are a ton of versions of working culture out there, that are not western. Pick one and run with it. But picking a repeatedly failing one is a sentence for decay and destruction.

[soco]

Could you please explain the "socialist cultural rot" and the "eradicate cultures"? You might mean something totally sensible but this wording is quite triggering to me.

[PicassoCTs]

Everywhere socialist movements like the ANC take hold- there sets in a "im going to extract as much as i can from the state as he extracts from me - while giving him nothing" mindset. Its prevalent in the older generations in the eastern european block countries, china - its almost universal where the socialist experiment was run. The idealized society does not mesh and work with human nature at all, in fact it brings out the worst.

The old people of china, still steal paper towels on public toilets, because "take it all, while its there, before its gone" is the mindset encouraged. They brought you the tourists-"buffet rush"-genre of videos on youtube.

Of course this leads to dysfunction and misery- which then leads to conspiracy - of "they took it". Its ultimately another version of low-thrust society unable to function. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_socie...

A ugly side-effect that lingers for decades. Re-distribution and retribution, do not increase the size of the cake. Hard work rewarded does!

[soco]

Ok, this makes sense. I would only add the low-trust society evolving in the west, including the US, which is definitely not caused by socialism. Maybe it's just the way we (all) fall?

[miningape]

> which is definitely not caused by socialism

Currently, in western countries, socialist policies to import the 3rd world and open borders are directly responsible for the lowering social trust.

> “immigrant rights are workers rights” is not mere rhetoric, and that the defense of migrants and refugees – the vast majority of whom are poor workers – is pivotal to the struggle of the entire global working class regardless of national origin. [1]

[1] https://sfarchive.dsausa.org/issues/fall-2019/editorial-note...

[paulryanrogers]

The West is slipping because the rich privatize the profits and socialize the costs. It's the worst of both models.

The USA thrived when free markets and value creation were encouraged yet heavily regulated. That way the benefits and costs didn't become too concentrated

[supplied_demand]

== Currently, in western countries, socialist policies to import the 3rd world and open borders are directly responsible for the lowering social trust.==

I don’t know of any western country with an “open borders” policy, can you provide one? Is there a part of the US’s 250 year history where we weren’t bringing in immigrants from poorer countries to provide cheap labor?

[vladms]

I am sure a capitalist system will NOT work great for a tribe of hunter gatherers!

The problem is not the socialist type of ideas, it is whom you are applying them to and at what point. The society must have certain complexity, capabilities and resources to be successful "socialist".

Going from feudalism to socialism was shown repeatedly not to work (ex: Russia, China). The countries that are currently more socialist and successful were not primarily feudal when they applied the socialist ideas. Also, there are huge differences in what is called "socialism"...

Even in the USA, capitalist came with "socialist ideas", like Henry Ford that said that one more free day will boost his overall sales, but the moment was right. I think he could not have done the same 100 years before.

[miningape]

I just want to add on to your reply to justify why it's correct to call the ANC a socialist party that is causing the cultural and economic collapse of South Africa.

You could look towards their policies inspired by socialist thought a.k.a. "social justice" (BEE and expropriation). These policies are actively harmful to development while also turning off any potential investors, and are deeply rooted in socialist ideology.

You can look towards their roots being funded and directly aided by the Soviets, China, Cuba, and several others. Especially their military (terrorist) and propaganda training which was heavily influenced by Soviet foreign policy.

You can look towards their re-alignment of the country's economic and foreign policy to engage with the 2nd world, while turning off 1st world investors. This has given us strong economic ties with Russia, China, and Iran. While most of these relationships are useless, the Chinese relationship has been especially damaging to the development, maintenance, and sovereignty of our national physical infrastructure.

But the most damning evidence is the insane socialist parties that have spawned out of the fracturing of the ANC such as the MK and EFF parties (both militant socialist parties, formed by ex ANC leaders). While their socialist rhetoric had to be contained while apart of the ANC (so as to not further turn off investors), the ANC's weakening grip has allowed these nutjobs to become serious contenders in the political race. If you were wondering what the "kill the boer" chants were about they were at political rallies held by the EFF (Julius Malema) - part of the EFF's kit is a red beret (I wonder where they got that from?).

Voetsek to any champagne socialist that wants to ruin yet another country because it makes them feel good to support people and ideologies they do not understand.

[overfeed]

> Voetsek to any champagne socialist that wants to ruin yet another country

I take it you don't consider the country to have veen ruined under apartheid - aka socialism for whites, rugged-capitalism for everyone else.

[miningape]

Care to explain how an ethno-nationalist government implemented socialism?

> I take it you don't consider the country to have veen ruined under apartheid

Wether or not I consider the country to have been ruined under apartheid is irrelevant to the fact that the ANC is dragging it back to the stone age.

The ANC was handed a functioning economy, solid infrastructure, and hope for a better future - there are now rolling blackouts across the country, soaring unemployment, and a birth rate higher than the GDP growth rate. And that hope for a better future? All but gone - There are more race based laws _today_ than there were under apartheid.

I'm glad apartheid ended 30 years ago, I'm not glad with the direction we're going now. These are not the same thing - you trying to portray it as such says more about your views than it does mine.