[firesteelrain]

That’s a dramatic oversimplification. Azure Europe runs in EU datacenters under EU laws. Microsoft’s EU Data Boundary limits access (even for US staff) It’s not as fragile as one political post bringing the whole thing down.

[BartjeD]

Ofcourse it is.

The IT of the ICJ on MS 365 got shut off... After a truth social post.

EU law means nothing when the employees are on the next plain to Washington. And when the funding and expertise and infrastructure is tightly controlled by USA entities, who'm react severely to the posts of the commander in Chief. (As would I)

[firesteelrain]

Inaccurate.

The ICJ email issue was tied to a support contract suspension.

If the EU wants full independence, that’s a fair goal, but we should be clear about what's actually happened versus what feels like it could happen.

[BartjeD]

I sense we won't come to a consensus.

It's not what the EU wants at all. That assumption is the root of your arguments, but it is wrong.

The EU wasn't created to shaft America or anyone else.

In fact, the reason so many US services and companies were doing business in the EU was because the USA had a stellar reputation as an ally and as a society.

But at this point, after the ICJ, Greenland annexation, weapon kill switches, White house office ambushes, hostile tarrifs, and all the other drama and threats and coercion, arrests of EU citizens etc.. it's a theme that the EU no longer can trust nor rely on the US. The US only cares for itself, not any friends and allies.

Put simply: The USA wouldn't host it's federal websites on Alibaba Cloud. And the US isn't a trusted reliable friend and ally anymore, as regrettable as that is, it means a pivot away from relying on anything US is necessary. And common sense. To anyone not drinking the cool aid. ;)

[firesteelrain]

I don’t disagree that trust is at the core of this shift. Sovereignty efforts are a response to broader geopolitical dynamics not just cloud tech choices. But framing it as the EU cutting ties out of betrayal or drama misses the point. It's about strategic independence. This is like how the US wouldn't outsource core infrastructure to Alibaba. That's not hostility. It’s basic statecraft.

[BartjeD]

I appreciate your position, but I think it's mainly one in hindsight, 20/20 etc..

The reality is that the EU has had plans for strategic autonomy in case of necessity, for a longer time. But hasn't enacted them because the US was a trusted partner. And this has been the balance of things since the 2nd world war, so roughly 85 years.

The reality now is upside down: In most of the EU the US now has a reputation on par with Russia and China, and the theme is to enact strategic autonomy as soon as possible.

This is a tipping point, because up until now the US enjoyed the position of uncontested dominance, backed by a multiplier equal it's economic weight and global influence etc.. This is no longer self-evident, because of reasons, but at the end of the day this is due to decisions Americans made and which their children will also have to live with.

I genuinely wonder if this isn't the decade in which the US shot itself in the head and crippled itself for the next 85 years. For basically no reason, other than self-interested and self-enriching politics.

It's literally incredible how much hard work and effort was thrown out in the span of two years, which took hundreds of years to accumulate. And I don't think the second time roud will be any easier or quicker.